Revelation 17:9-11 Discussion Islamic Antichrist

Dear All,

I have been revisiting the subject of the Islamic Antichrist as I believe this to be the correct understanding. I have watched all of Tims Revelation study videos and his Daniel series as well. I know Tim does not agree with this understanding which is fine as we can all have our own opinions and beliefs.
I have read a very good book by Waluid Shoebat called “Why I Left Jihad” and he makes a very good and historical and biblical case for an Islamic Empire being the 7th and 8th Empires.

I would just like to ask a question about Revelation 17:9-11 which states the following:-

Revelation 17:9-11 This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

Now the seven heads are called seven mountains. The Bible often uses mountains as a symbol representing a kingdom or an empire. But most importantly this passage gives us insight into the fact that, before Jesus returns, there will actually have been a total of eight “beast” empires. The eighth empire will be ruled by the Antichrist. How can this passage help us gain insight into the identification of the final empire of the Antichrist? First, we see that at the time that John wrote this passage, five of the empires had already fallen. This is seen in the phrase “five have been.”

These empires are generally accepted by Bible teachers as the following:

1. The Egyptian empire
2. The Assyrian empire
3. The Babylonian empire
4. The Persian empire
5. The Greek empire

After these five, the angel tells John that one empire “is.” At the time that John wrote the Book of Revelation, Rome “was.” It ruled the Middle East, Northern Africa, and much of Europe. Thus the 6th empire was the Roman empire. The next empire, of course, is the seventh, and then the eighth will be the empire of the Antichrist.

So, it is the 7th empire that we need to identify, because, according to the verse, the 8th empire will be a resurrected or a revived version of the seventh empire: “The beast who once was, and is not, is an 8th king.” Let me just paraphrase this portion for clarity: “The seventh beast [empire] that existed, but then did not exist, will come back as an eighth empire.”

So, if we are now waiting for the final 8th empire, then what was the 7th?

Which empire followed Rome?

Because of the harsh anti-Semitic nature of the German Third Reich, some Bible teachers have speculated that Germany was the 7th empire and thus Germany will come back as the 8th.

The most common belief, however, held almost universally by Bible teachers, is that the Antichrist’s empire will be a revived Roman empire. There are, however, some problems with this theory. First, Rome was the 6th empire. Does everyone agree with this?

If Rome was the sixth and will also be the last, then what happened to the seventh? This theory has a hole in it. How can Rome be the 6th, 7th, and the 8th empires?

Every one of the previous 6 empires ruled the Middle East, including Jerusalem. As we all know, we must always remember that the Bible is thoroughly Jerusalem-centric. In the biblical view of things, Jerusalem is the center of the earth. Any theory that revolves around a revived Roman empire based in Europe—for instance on the European Common Market—is a concept foreign to the Bible. Unless the empire rules over or directly affects Jerusalem, it is actually a bit irrelevant to the biblical mind-set.

If we look at the first 6 empires, each succeeding empire either destroyed or absorbed the empire that preceded it. There is a very natural succession. If we look at each empire, we see that they
all fulfill these two characteristics: they ruled over Jerusalem and they defeated or absorbed their predecessor. The Egyptian empire ruled all of Egypt and Israel as well. But the Assyrian empire defeated the Egyptian empire and likewise ruled over a vast portion of the Middle East, including Israel. After this, the Babylonian empire defeated the Assyrian empire and became even larger than its predecessor, again, ruling over Israel. Such is the pattern with each successive empire:

The Medo-Persian empire succeeded the Babylonian empire, only to be succeeded by the Greek empire. The Greek empire was in turn succeeded by the Roman empire. Which leads us to the 7th
empire. Who overcame the Roman empire? In order to answer this question, we need to briefly review the fall of the Roman empire.

What exactly happened?

In AD 395, the Roman empire was divided into two portions; the eastern and the western portions. The eastern portion became known as the Byzantine empire, which I have read about in a book called The Great Arab Conquests written by Hugh Kennedy. In AD 410 the western capital city of Rome fell to invading Germanic tribes known as the Visigoths or Barbarians. The western/European half of the empire, including its capital, had fallen, but the Roman empire nevertheless continued.

It simply shifted its capital and its throne from Rome to Constantinople— a thousand miles east. The western European portion of the Roman empire fell but the Eastern Byzantine portion of the Roman empire lived on for nearly another thousand years with Constantinople as its capital. The Roman empire didn’t actually completely fall until the eastern portion of the empire finally fell in AD 1453 to the Turks. The Turkish/Ottoman empire succeeded the Roman empire and ruled over the entire Middle East, including Jerusalem, for nearly five hundred years. The Turkish empire existed right up until 1909.

Thus, we see that the only empire that fulfils the patterns necessary to be considered the 7th empire is the Turkish/Ottoman empire. This of course corresponds perfectly with Ezekiel’s list of
nations with such a heavy emphasis on Turkey (Togarmah, Gomer, Meshech, Tubal with Magog being now understood to cover the current Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and possibly parts of modern Afghanistan).

The Coming Restoration Of The Caliphate

The Turkish empire was the seat of the Islamic caliphate. It was not until 1923 that the Islamic caliphate was officially abolished. Today the Islamic world awaits the restoration of that caliphate. The Bible teaches that someday soon the Turkish empire will be revived:

The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the Book of Life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, then he was
not, and yet came again. (Revelation 17:8)

I would recommend to everyone to at least read the book the Islamic Antichrist and see how Satan has crafted Islam to be the ultimate Anti-Christ religion as it completely rejects that God can have a Son. Not only that, but Islam teaches that Jesus will come back and convert people to Islam and help eradicate any Jews and Christians that stand in their way. https://joelstrumpet.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Islamic-Antichrist.pdf It is in Swedish as well for Anders Gardeborn. https://joelstrumpet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Swedish_EnIslamiskAntikrist_inlay_190306-till-print.pdf

Can anyone demonstrate why the 7th and thus the 8th cannot be the Islamic Caliphate?

Thanks to everyone for reading and bearing with me.