Arian Controversy seems to have been Over Emphasied
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Timothy.
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March 28, 2025 at 8:11 pm #5806
Raymond
ParticipantTim at al,
I have been doing some research lately and it seems the standard account of what took place between Arius and Alexander of Alexandria has been misrepresented. I wanted to learn from the history of the past and my hope that this post might help others intereested in learning from men that have gone before us. I would like your opinion on this if possible as I share what I have found. I am using what Andries Van Niekerk of South Africa has put together as a post. His basis for a lot of what he has found is from a book titled The Search for the Christian Doctrine of God and then a seminar speech by RPC Hanson in which he summarisied his stance, plus many other books that he has read related to this subject.
He states that the contraversy has a number of phases and should not have been named the Arian Contraversy:-
The following are the main phases:
1. Second century: Logos theologians vs Monarchains
2. Third century: Origenists vs Sabellians
3. Arius vs Alexander
4. Nicene Council
5. The remainder of Constantine’s reign
6. The Divided Empire (340s)
7. Constantius’ reign (350s)
8. Meletian Schism (360-370s)
9. Theodosius’ reign (380-)Extracted from this web page:- https://revelationbyjesuschrist.com/real-issue-at-nicaea/
Overview of what the Real Main Issue in the Arian Controversy?
The issue was not whether the Son is divine or subordinate.
In the traditional account of the Arian Controversy, it was a struggle between Nicenes and Arians, and the main issue was whether Jesus is God, as the Nicenes claimed, or a created being, as the Arians claimed. However, over the last 100 years, scholars have discovered that the traditional account is a complete travesty. The Arians agreed that He is divine and the Nicenes agreed that He is subordinate.
The Controversy was also not about Arius’ theology.Contrary to what is traditionally stated, He did not develop a new theology. He was a conservative. He was also not important. He had few real followers and did not leave behind a school of disciples.
The Controversy was about whether the Son was a distinct divine Being.Lienhard proposed that the main issue was the number of divine hypostases (Persons). In other words, the issue was whether the Son is a distinct Person, as the Arians believed, or part of the Father, as the Nicenes believed.
To understand this, it is important to realize that the idea that God is both one and three (one Being but three Persons) did not yet exist. Athanasius and his followers believed that the Father and Son are a single Person. The idea of God being both one and three followed from the theology of the Cappadocians, much later in that century.
The Nicenes and Sabellians believed that the Father and Son are a single divine Being.Lienhard classifies the Sabellians with the Nicenes. For example, while Alexander allied with the Sabellians at Nicaea, Athanasius allied with the Sabellians in later decades. The primary identification of Sabellian theology is ‘one hypostasis’; that the Father and Son are a single Person. But that is also what Alexander and Athanasius believed.
This brought Athanasius into severe conflict with the Cappadocians, who taught three hypostases.One disadvantage of Lienhard’s classification is that it puts the Cappadocians with the Arians because both these groups taught three hypostases. To address this anomaly, Anatolios proposed that the main issue was whether the Son is homoousios with the Father. the benefit of this classification is that it groups the Cappadocians with the other Nicenes, but it does not explain the severe conflict that developed between the Athanasians and the Cappadocians.
The core issue was whether the Son is a distinct Person.This article identifies the real main issue by providing an overview of the Controversy, showing who opposed who and who allied with who in each of its phases.
It concludes that the real main issue was the number of divine hypostases, as Lienhard proposed, but that this also applies to the Cappadocians. It shows further that the two opposing groups were the Sabellians (not Nicenes) and the Eusebians (not Arians).
It was not an Arian Controversy; it was a Sabellian Controversy.Furthermore, since it is called the ‘Arian’ Controversy on the assumption that Arius formulated a new heresy that threatened orthodoxy, it should rather be called the Sabellian Controversy because Sabellianism was already rejected in the third century but continued to threaten orthodoxy in the fourth century.
PurposeThe fourth-century ‘Arian’ Controversy was the most dramatic internal struggle the Christian Church had experienced so far. It resulted in the Trinity doctrine, which some regard as “the centerpiece of orthodox theology” (GotQuestions), and formed the church that dominated the Middle Ages.
In the traditional account of that struggle between the Nicenes and the Arians, the main issue was whether Jesus is God. However, over the last 100 years, based on new information and research, scholars have described the Controversy very differently. The question arises, what was the fundamental issue that divided the Nicenes and Arians?
This article begins by explaining what the Controversy was NOT about. For example, it shows that, when the Controversy began, even the Arians described Jesus as divine. On the other hand, even the pro-Nicenes, even Athanasius, regarded Him as subordinate to the Father.
This article evaluates different proposals of what the real main issue was:
In the Nicene Creed, it seems as if the main issue was out of what the Son was begotten; out of nothing, or out of the substance of the Father.
In 1987, Lienhard proposed that the real main issue was the number of divine hypostases. In other words, whether the pre-incarnate Son is a distinct Person, as the Arians believed, or whether He and the Father are a single Person, as the Nicenes believed.
In 2011, Anatolios proposed that the main issue was whether the Son is homoousios with the Father.
This article evaluates these alternatives by providing an overview of the main phases of the Arian Controversy, showing in each phase who allied with whom, and who opposed who, indicating what the core issue was.
The rest can be read be going to the top link. Andries has many other helpful web pages on the book of Daniel and Revelation with a special focus on what could the mark of the beast be and he postulates that this issue will revolve around who is Christ and we might revisit what took place in the 4th Century AD all over again.
Blessings to all in Jesus Name!
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April 4, 2025 at 9:44 am #5924
Timothy
KeymasterThe Nicaean Council struggled with more than one issue and more than one heresy that had developed beginning in the mid-2nd century. But the primary cause of it being convened by Constantine was the turmoil caused by the argument between Arius and Alexander, and their each trying to win other churches and pastors to their side of the argument.
In the end, the Nicene Creed did not resolve nearly all of the differences and nuances that were represented during the council, leaving much undone. The AD 325 Creed with its slight amendment in AD 321 definitely anathematized the idea that the Son was “created, and in opposition to this insisted on “begotten” and “only-begotten.” There is very explicit language about preexistence, and what the preexistent Son actually was and was not. The council did not address specifically whether the Son’s preexistence went back to eternity past or only the beginning of creation week. The statement “begotten of the Father before all ages,” probably does not extend before time since “all ages” refers to finite time which is a part of this creation. The negative statement, “not made” clearly show what was at stake and what was being absolutely determined by the council.
We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible;
And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, begotten from the Father before all ages, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, of one substance with the Father, through Whom all things came into existence,…The creed was in part a rebuke of certain things rightly or wrongly attributed to Arius, but it also condemned other deviations from the original Faith including Sabellianism (the Father is Jesus) promoted by Praxaes and others, and Socinianism (denial of preexistence) by some like Paul of Samosata.
The anathema concerning those who say “there was a time when the Son was not” was explained by Constantine and Eusebius as condemnation of those who deny preexistence, not those who claimed that the Son had a beginning as a distinct person, something that is enshrined in the creed itself by referring to His being “begotten” (as opposed to “created”) which requires a beginning point of His person. (Of course even the earliest writers believed that the Son’s substance or essence which then became a distinct person through begetting was out of God Himself, thus “of one substance with the Father.”
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April 4, 2025 at 11:56 am #5925
Raymond
ParticipantThanks Tim,
This definition “We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible;
And in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, begotten from the Father before all ages, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, of one substance with the Father, through Whom all things came into existence,…”is what we believe is it not?
There is no problem with this understanding for us at all. It does not state that Jesus has always existed in the above statement. Before all ages can be seen to mean before time began.
Blessings Raymond
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April 4, 2025 at 2:57 pm #5926
Timothy
KeymasterI agree with the Nicene Creed. The clause “begotten … before all ages” refers to human ages, as the word “age” is a finite period of time usually encompassing a series of events. The statements in Prov. 8:22, John 8:25 (Gk), Col. 1:15, and Revelation 3:14, all of which refer to the Son by the title “the Beginning,” were commonly used in the ECF writings to place the Son’s “begetting” event as the very beginning of creation week, and the frequent reference to the pre-incarnate Son as “Wisdom” always points to Prov. 8:22-25 as defining His origin out of God. There are some statements in the ECFs which in the English translations seem to indicate that the Son always existed, just as the Father. But these statements suffer from misunderstanding of the Greek words that are translated into English such as “eternal” but do not carry infinity as an essential part of their meaning in common usage. The common way the Son and Father were distinguished in the ECFs was by saying that the Father is “unbegotten” but the Son is “begotten.” This was to claim that the Father alone always existed and has no external cause, but the Son did not always exist as a distinct person and thus has a cause (the Father). The anathema appended to the creed denounces anyone who says something like, “there was a TIME when the Son did not exist.” But again, this is limited by how one understands the term “time,” whether it is a component of the material creation (speed of natural processes – true) thus God is not confined by it, or whether one takes a more philosophical view of time as being the rule that governs and confines everything including God Himself – false. This later view was common in Greek philosophy as well as the idea that God Himself is confined within the creation and is governed by its laws, something we know to be false and the Genesis creation account refutes.
What most scholars and theologians miss regarding what led to the early controversies and the creed is how the philosophical principle of “change” shaped the move away from the ancient Faith, that if the Son was of the same essence as God, He could not “change” to become human. This Greek philosophical principle (which is false) led to virtually all of the confusion including Arianism and Trinitarianism’s “hypostatic union.”
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April 6, 2025 at 5:55 am #5928
Raymond
ParticipantThanks so much for your insights and time you take to answer. It really helps ground me and improves the way I think and look at scripture.
Blessings
Raymond -
April 9, 2025 at 12:24 pm #5929
Timothy
KeymasterYou’re welcome.
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