March 7, 2022 at 10:48 am #2397Anders GParticipant
Tim (or Anybody),
In your teaching over Rev 14:6-20 (BBI 11:35 and 11:36), you find 5 angels (messengers) who are consecutive to help the reader map out the sequence of events during the tribulation.
I suggest there are 7 messengers since the last two come in pairs with one “commander” and one “executor” (and counting “the Son of man” in v.14 as a messenger).
This makes the Book of Revelation beautifully symmetric. The tribulation is covered in 4 cycles and each cycle ends with the return of Christ. And all four cycles contain 7 objects: 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, 7 Angels, and 7 Bowls.
What do you think?
March 7, 2022 at 8:12 pm #2401TimothyKeymaster
Interesting observation. The “Son of Man” is also the “Messenger (Angel) of God” in Rev. 1:1,13.
On another note, what do you make of “another mighty angel” in Rev. 10:1 who is “clothed with a cloud. And a rainbow was on his head, his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire.” That sounds a lot like the “Son of Man” in Rev. 1, who is also the “Son of Man” in Rev. 14:14.
And what of the “7 thunders” in Rev. 10:4 which all uttered their voices when the “mighty angel” roars? And why was the message of the 7 thunders not written down? John heard and understood what the 7 thunders said. He just did not put it in writing. If he knew what the 7 thunders said, is it possible that he passed that down orally to his students?
March 8, 2022 at 1:15 pm #2409Anders GParticipant
I find it obvious that Jesus is called angel/messenger in many places in Revelation and in the rest of the Bible.
Perhaps this thought may be taken one step further. Maybe all facilitators of the judgement objects in Revelation are/is Jesus:
* In the first cycle of the tribulation, it is expressively “the Lamb” who opens the seven seals (the first in Rev 6:1).
* In the second cycle, there are 7 angels with 7 trumpets (Rev 8:6).
* In the third cycle, at least one of the seven angels is “the Son of Man” (Rev 14:14).
* In the fourth cycle, there are 7 angels with 7 bowls (Rev 16:1).
But can one being (Jesus) be described as seven beings (angels)? I think so, and there are other examples of this:
* I believe Jesus is “the seven Spirits who are before His throne” (Rev 1:4, also Rev 3:1, 4:5, 5:6).
* I believe “the seven thunders” of Rev 10:4 are/is Jesus. Maybe these are the same as “the voice [singular] of the Lord” in Ps 29: 1) The voice of the LORD[is] over the waters; The God of glory thunders… 2) The voice of the LORD [is] powerful; 3) The voice of the LORD [is] full of majesty. 4) The voice of the LORD breaks the cedars… 5) The voice of the LORD divides the flames of fire. 6) The voice of the LORD shakes the wilderness… 7) The voice of the LORD makes the deer give birth.
Contradicting this thought might be that “one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls” (Rev 21:9) prohibits John to worship him in Rev 22:8-9. However, it still seems to be Jesus since the same angel says “I am coming quickly” (Rev 22:7,12) and “I am the Alpha and the Omega” (Rev 22:13). It also seems like that very same angel is introducing Himself as Jesus in Rev 22:16. However, here He also says He has sent His own “angel to testify”.
Se who of the messengers are Jesus and who are not? I would love to hear your input.
March 8, 2022 at 3:25 pm #2412TimothyKeymaster
In Rev. 8:2,6 John saw seven angels with seven trumpets. IMO, they must be 7 distinct beings.
Again, in 15:1 John saw seven angels who had the seven last plagues (bowls). Again, IMO, these must be distinct beings.
In 17:1 “one of the seven angels” spoke to John and showed him ‘Mystery Babylon.’ One of seven requires seven distinct beings.
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