The place Jesus prepares now (John 14:2-3) as the New Jerusalem (Rev 21)
The Pristine Abrahamic Faith › Forums › Exegesis of Specific Passages › The place Jesus prepares now (John 14:2-3) as the New Jerusalem (Rev 21)
- This topic has 7 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 2 months ago by Dave R.
March 22, 2022 at 7:21 am #2483
br. Tim, Regarding John 14:2-3, I remember you interpreting it elsewhere as referring to the [heavenly?] Temple (=the Father’s house)! I don’t fully recollect the details. But I’m trying to see if this passage may be connected to Rev 21:2—”the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God”. You have interpreted Rev 21:2 as an allegory and a metaphor for God restoring the present Jerusalem in BBI modules V and XI. But could it be that John 14:2-3 is referring to Jesus actually preparing in this age the New Jerusalem for the saints (using the actual precious stones, gold etc as mentioned in Rev 21) that will literally come down to where the present Jerusalem is, so that the city is both this Jerusalem but with heavenly adornment (made by Jesus)?
March 22, 2022 at 9:27 pm #2484
I have never taught that John 14:2-3 refers to heaven or the Temple in heaven. I have taught that it refers to the Kingdom Temple on earth. Jesus Himself referred to the Temple in Jerusalem as “My Father’s House” in John 2:16, (and in Luke 2:49 in many translations). The “House of the LORD” throughout the Old Testament is always the Temple on earth, whether referring to Solomon’s Temple, the restored Temple under Cyrus, or the Kingdom Temple in Ezekiel 40-48.
There are several OT prophecies, particularly in Isaiah, which describe the restoration of Jerusalem in the Kingdom, including the rebuilding of her walls by humans, and the wealth of the nations being brought to beautify her (Isa. 60 is one such passage).
In my opinion, what is described in Rev. 21-22 regarding the New Jerusalem is allegory, including its descent from heaven which indicates that God causes her restoration not man.
There is another possibility, however, which was held by some of the early Fathers, such as Irenaeus. His view was that Jerusalem will be restored as per Isaiah, Ezekial, Zechariah, etc., when Christ returns, but will be completely changed or replaced after the millennium by a city which descends from heaven for the eternal state. IMO, however, the parallel language between Rev. 21-22 & the prophets’ description of restored Jerusalem argues against Irenaeus’ view (which is also the view held by many premillennialists).
March 23, 2022 at 12:27 am #2485
John 14:2-3, from what I’ve come across, is the main verse used for showing a heavenly destiny for the saints, and in dispensational circles, for “the church” (ie, Pentecost to Rapture saints) as opposed to an earthly destiny for OT saints and other non-church saints.
Thanks for the clarification on your position on the Father’s house being the earthly Kingdom temple. As I said, I wasn’t fully recollecting your points, hence i mentioned “heavenly” in bracket with a question mark. In my mind, How could Jesus prepare *now* the future earthly Kingdom Temple? I know this is only one passage against a multitude showing earthly destiny. However, this is still an important one, perhaps the best one for the other camp. Any further thoughts on how it can be the Kingdom temple if Jesus is to prepare it now?
March 24, 2022 at 12:02 pm #2486
The “preparation” for the disciples in Christ’s Kingdom was accomplished by His completing their redemption. It included His crucifixion, resurrection, ascension, and presenting His own blood in the Temple in heaven to make atonement (Heb. 9:12; Heb. 13:12). Provision for complete forgiveness was not completed for anyone until Jesus’ blood was actually presented to God in the Temple in heaven (Hebrews 7 – 10). Hebrews portrays Jesus as both the blood sacrifice AND the High Priest who carried the blood into the presence of God in the Holy of Holies (Heb. 9:22-28). This is also why immediately after His resurrection Jesus told Mary “do not touch Me, I have not yet ascended to my Father …” yet a week later He told Thomas to touch Him to see that He was flesh and bone. Jesus ascended and descended after His resurrection to appear to specific people, but ascended for the last time as recorded in Acts 1.
All of this is what Jesus had to do to “prepare a place” for the disciples and all of the redeemed in His Kingdom Temple on earth. Jesus is not building Christian condos in heaven, nor is He working on a city in heaven that will descend to earth. He is seated at the Father’s right hand.
March 25, 2022 at 6:46 am #2488
Thank you for the thoughts. I need to chew on this.
March 26, 2022 at 11:39 pm #2494Dave RParticipant
Tim, I want to ask some questions regarding the last statement of your answer above that Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father. Is this a metaphor? I thought no one has seen the Father except the pre-incarnate Son and angels. And now, if Jesus is fully human (in His resurrected body) does He possess the ability to see the Father? Will we have this privilege in our resurrected bodies? Can the Father be seated on an actual throne as mentioned in various places in the Bible? I don’t want this to sound like one of those silly questions such as if God can make anything can He make something he can’t lift…but I believe God exists outside of creation but wouldn’t Heaven also His creation therefore would He exist outside if it?
March 27, 2022 at 7:32 pm #2496
It is only humans who have never seen God. Angels in heaven certainly see His face, as Jesus indicated in the following verse.
“Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven.” (Matt. 18:10 NKJ)
In the resurrection, we will also see God’s face (Rev. 22:4). So Jesus in HIs resurrected state certainly sees HIs Father’s face.
Just how tangible the Throne of God is exactly, I cannot say. All I know is what the Scriptures says. We certainly believe that Jesus’ throne in the Kingdom Temple will be a real and tangible thing. The following verse compares Jesus’ Kingdom throne (the Throne of David) with God’s Throne.
“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Rev. 3:21 NKJ)
I prefer not to speculate beyond what the Scripture reveals, and I also tend to take such things at face value.
March 27, 2022 at 9:16 pm #2497Dave RParticipant
Thank you for your insight!
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