The Sign of the Son of Man

[Anders G]

Tim,

In the epilogue of your Revelation series (BBI 11:60 from 35:30), you interpret “the sign of the Son of man” (Matt 24:30) as a conjunction between Venus and Regulus. As you encourage your listeners, I have checked up what you say, but I am not able to verity everything:

• You say Venus and Regulus actually “touch” or “merge together” between the 1^st and 2^nd of October 2036. You say the separation is 0.01 degrees which is touching. I do not know how to calculate the angle, but in neither of my astronomy programs (Redshift 8 and Stellarium) there is touching or merging.
• You say Venus and Regulus are close each 8^th year, and during the last century this closeness has increased until they touch in 2036. You say they have been “nowhere near so close during the last century”. I cannot see any such trend, and if there is a climax, it is rather in 2044 when there is an actual occultation. (The timing differs with 2+ minutes between my two astronomy programs, which surprises me. I thought they used the same algorithms.)
• You say that the conjunction occurs on Yom Kippur 2036. Is this the tabulated date? As you say elsewhere, the Jews may very well go back to the observation-based calendar when the temple and priesthood are reinstated, and then we cannot know the dates beforehand.

Below are some data from https://earthsky.org/astronomy-essentials/venus-regulus-conjunction-in-early-october/ and it backs up my doubts:

October 2, 2028, at 06:44 UTC: Venus passes 0.1 degrees south of Regulus
October 1, 2036, at 20:00 UTC: Venus passes 0.1 degrees south of Regulus
October 1, 2044, at 09:21 UTC: Venus passes 0 degrees of Regulus (occultation)

[Timothy]

Anders,

Your measurements need to be more precise than merely 0.1 degrees in order to observe what I was talking about. I am using Redshift 7 which has a measuring tool to measure the distances between objects. You can zoom in and then take very precise measurements. Here are the measurements between the closest passes between Venus and Regulus this century measuring from the center of Regulus to the center of Venus using the measuring tool when the distance is the least.

Oct. 03, 2004 00 deg. 09’02.31″
Oct. 03, 2012 00 deg. 07’01.22″
Oct. 02, 2020 00 deg. 05’12.96″
Oct. 02, 2028 00 deg. 03’21.53″
Oct. 01, 2036 00 deg. 01’24.35″
Oct. 01, 2044 00 occultation

These observations would not be considered important or spectacular unless one understands the convergence of the following things: the Feast calendar and significance of Yom Kippur, the Mazzaroth (the significance of the 12 constellations – Leo the lion representing Christ and the Kingdom, and the brightest star – Regulus, meaning “King”), that the 6000th year from creation begins on that very day, and Jesus’ statement “I am the Root and Offspring of David, the bright and morning star” (Rev. 22:16). Jesus is obviously not the planet Venus, so there must be some mystery or enigma regarding Venus’ (morning star) relationship to Christ as King, (the seed of David).

My theory is that the closest observable pass when Venus (morning star) passes below Regulus, so that to the naked eye Regulus crowns Venus on Oct. 1-2, 2036, which also happens to be the Day of Atonement, and also exactly the day that the 6,000th year begins (120th Jubilee year), is a bit too much to be pure coincidence. Of course, both of these are dependent on the interpretation of the symbols in my Mazzaroth Book and the chronology in my Time of the End book being correct. I only discovered this apparent coincidence recently, when teaching through Revelation (Module 11). For me it adds another piece of evidence for the validity of the chronology.

I believe that all of the signs given in Scripture are from the perspective of observation with the naked eye, in exactly the way that the ancient Jews calculated the holy days. That it is Yom Kippur is based on observation of the New Moon (Rosh Hashanna), and then counting to the 10th day of the month.

Regarding how to predict a new moon in the future, this is based on many experiments that I did when I was writing my book. I was using the same Redshift 7 program, and observing how many degrees following the sun (after sunset) a new moon could be spotted by the naked eye. You cannot observe an astronomical new moon with the naked eye because the sky is still much too bright at the moment of sunset. My conclusion was that the moon must be at least 12-14 degrees above the horizon at sunset in order for the sky to be dark enough to spot the faint sliver of the new moon before it also sets below the horizon. I observed many New Moons one or two days after the astronomical new moons and kept tables. I would observe each night beginning at sunset on the day and following days of an astronomical new moon. When the sky was clear and I could barely spot a new moon, I would check the astronomy program for that day and time and measure the number of degrees from the new moon to the horizon at sunset. By observing this over many months, usually from the top of the parking garage at Tampa International airport, I was able to determine the minimum number of degrees the moon must be following the sun in order for a new moon to be visible, at least 12-14 degrees AFTER the astronomical new moon. Consequently, I use the astronomy program to find the date when Rosh Hashanna begins at sunset when the moon is at minimum 12-14 degrees above the horizon at sunset. That is how I can calculate the future feast days on the biblical calendar. For 2036, The New Moon for Rosh Hashanna will be 14 degrees above the horizon at sunset on Sept. 21. So Sept. 22 is the earliest that Rosh Hashanna can occur. But there is also a 2 day window to account for weather conditions. Using the Jewish observational method, if weather conditions would not allow a possible new moon to be seen, they would look for it the following day. If weather was still an issue, they would never exceed 30 days from the previous new moon. On any given month, the new moon was possibly spotted either 29 or 30 days after the previous new moon. In any case, the possible dates for Rosh Hashanna in 2036 are Sept. 22-23 (using the observational method). Either of these days could be Rosh Hashanna, which is Tishri 1 on the Biblical calendar. That means that Tishri 10 (Yom Kippur) will be on Oct. 1 or 2.

[Anders G]

Tim, I am not able to recapitulate your data. In Redshift, I do not find a tool to measure or calculate angle differences. I have Redshift 8, so maybe they have done away with that function? I have also the freeware Stellarium, and there I can measure the angels. But I do not find the decreasing 8-year-trend you are describing.

I have some remaining questions:
* Do your measurements concern the tightest conjunctions, or the ones visible (above Jerusalem’s horizon at night) and/or the ones where Regulus is above Venus (for “crowning”)?
* What do you mean when you say Regulus and Venus “touch” or “merge together”? Obviously, you do not mean occultation, but as I understand “touching”, it is the border to occultation.

BTW, great research you have done from Tampa airport. As far as I can see, there are at least 5 factors affecting the lengths of months:
1. The moon’s orbital speed is not constant due to its eccentricity.
2. The exact time of the day that the astronomical new moon is occurring. (One minute before or after the observation time can make a whole day’s difference.)
3. Atmospheric conditions.
4. State of the observer, e.g. eyesight.
5. The sun-earth-moon system is a three-body-problem without analytical solutions. And it is also possibly chaotic, meaning that it can vary in unpredictable ways.

So even if there is a higher limit of moon lengths of 30 days, I guess there is no shortest limit. So maybe the actual moon lengths may differ more than 2 days?

[Timothy]

Anders,

I have not used Redshift 8. The tool in Redshift 7 measures the separation between any two bodies as viewed from earth, and is not affected by the degree of magnification. In the toolbar at the top it has an icon that looks like a compass for drawing circles. You click the icon, then point and click one of the objects, and drag the pointer to the other object, and the degrees of separation appears in the toolbar at the bottom of the screen.

My reference point of observation was Jerusalem. My experiments only sought to find a minimum degree of separation between the VISIBLE new moon and the horizon at sunset. As I said, I could see the new moon with the naked eye only when it was a minimum of 12-14 degrees behind the sunset. When the astronomy program showed less than that, I was not able to observe a new moon after many tries because the sky was still to light.

I realize that this is not precise, but was the best that I could achieve to find a baseline. I realize that the moon’s orbit is not consistent from month to month, and yes, the time of day that the astronomical new moon actually occurs can make a whole day’s difference. And yes, one’s eyesight is a factor. And yes, air pollution and light pollution can be factors. At the time I did these experiments I would say that my distance eyesight was pretty good, and I had Diane with me also observing. So my observations would probably be typical of any observer. Probably the only way to improve my experimental method would be do duplicate the process on the Mount of Olives.

Since the Jews observed the new moon every month for purposes of setting the calendar for the feasts, they had tabulated past new moons. They were also well aware that the lunar cycle averages to about 29.5 days. So they never declared a new moon LESS than 29 days from the previous, nor more than 30 days. Despite the variables, there would never be more than a 2 day variation, even with bad weather for both observation days. In other words, their months were always either 30 days or 29 days (never 28 or 31).

In any case, the purpose of my experiments more than 10 years ago was for calculating the feast days.

When I said that Regulus and Venus appear to “touch” I was referring to observation with the naked eye without any kind of magnification. As you know, stars and planets are not sharply focused objects, but have a bit of a fuzzy glow about them. This is also represented visibly in the astronomy programs. When you view these things with the naked eye, even in the astronomy program, without any magnification, Venus and Regulus appear to merge their glow together into what appears to be a crowning with two objects with a single glow around them. This is also true when you magnify them by 200% and even 300%. You have to magnify the sky by at least 400% before you can see any separation at all.

I copied a screenshot from my Redshift 7 program and uploaded it to the 4 winds site so you can see what I see. https://4windsfellowships.net/bbi_notes/11/Redshift7_10-02-2036.png

What is marked (EST – Eastern Standard Time) is my local time which is -5:00 UTC. Jerusalem time is +2:00 UTC, seven hours ahead of my time. According to my astronomy program, on Yom Kippur, at 00:35 UTC Venus and Regulus will rise above the horizon in the east with a small visible separation between them. By 06:00 UTC (about 8:00am Jerusalem time) that visible separation will completely disappear so that to the naked eye they will not be distinguishable. By 09:00 UTC (11:00 am Jerusalem time) Venus will have passed Regulus so as to be distinguishable again to the naked eye. Of course, this all will occur during daytime (viewed from Jerusalem), which means the sky will be bright and neither will be visible (certainly not Regulus), unless of course the sun has been darkened and the moon turned blood red for 10 days, from Rosh Hashanna through Yom Kippur, then this display could easily be “the sign of the Son of Man in heaven” that people will observe. Time will tell. (Also, note that Venus is only the “morning star” when it appears in the morning, but is the evening star when it appears in the evening).

Matt. 24:29-30 (NKJV) 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

Rev. 22:16 (NKJV) 16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

I am not saying that this particular convergence of Venus (the “morning Star”) and Regulus (the King star) in Leo on Yom Kippur (the very day that the year 6000 from the curse begins) is definitely “the Sign of the Son of Man.” But if not, there sure seem to be some significant coincidences with my previous work on the Mazzaroth and chronology.

[Anders G]

Evidently, Redshift 8 has done away with the angle measurement tool. It exists in Stellarium, but there the calculating algorithms are obviously different.

It makes good sense to base “touching” on observation and not actual touching. The heavenly signs are supposed to be seen by all, and not only by the select few with astronomy programs.

Thanks for the dialogue!

[Anders G]

Tim,
Your assertion that the months are either 29 or 30 days long is crucial for the possibilities to interpret many of the Bible’s prophecies. How certain can we be of this? What is the source of your data? Since it is not stipulated in the Bible but by Jewish tradition, how certain can we be that it will be applied in the end times?

Also, even if a month always is either 29 or 30 days, I assume the new month can slide away from the actual new month with indefinetely many days. There can be atmospheric conditions that hinder observation many month in a row, defaulting each month to 30 days?

[Timothy]

Anders,

“Touching” can only be observational from a particular vantage point since the star Regulus is at a much greater distance from us than the planet Venus. So everything is merely an illusion based on location at a particular point in time. IMO, any interpretations of the biblical calendar and prophetic signs MUST be from using the methods that were in place at the time the Scriptures were written. They cannot be made using NASA data or other such scientific methods. The reason is that those methods are not observational from the one place on earth where God has placed His name, Jerusalem, and they are not based on human eyesight without magnification.

There are resources online for the information regarding the calculating of the lunar month on the Jewish calendar, being always either 29 or 30 days, for example:
https://www.jewfaq.org/jewish-calendar

The thing you have to remember is that the ancients kept very detailed observational records of the movements of the heavenly bodies over very long periods of time (lifetimes). They understood the patterns and cycles, and especially the limits of those cycles. So while there is some slight variation in them due to elliptical orbits, there are known limits to those variations. Observationally, (as far as we know) there has never been a lunar month more than 30 days or less than 29 days. So even with a return to the observational method, this fact will not allow for supposing that a lunar month might be 28 or 31 days unless there is observed a significant disruption of the normal cycles.

“In the period from 1600 to 2600, an average lunar month lasts 29.530575 days or 29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes, and 2 seconds. The shortest lunar month ended July 17, 1708 and lasted 29.271819 days (29 days, 6 hours, 31 minutes, and 25 seconds), while the longest was the one that ended on January 14, 1611 and lasted 29.832568 days (29 days, 19 hours, 58 minutes, and 54 seconds). The exact length varies slightly, due to the elliptical shape of the Moon’s orbit.”

https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/moon/lunar-month.html

We also know that in the last days there will be “signs in the sun, moon, and stars.” No astronomy program can predict things like the sun standing still in Joshua’s day, or any supernatural manifestations in the heavenly bodies or dramatic changes to the regular patterns. So all of these things presuppose that astronomical observations follow known mathematical formulas without disruptions. Given that the Bible states plainly that the heavenly bodies will be disrupted, possibly affecting the patterns of movement, it is impossible to say with certainty that something will occur on a particular date and time on our calendar. It is, however, possible to state that it will occur on a particular biblical feast day IF we use the ancient observational method which would not be disrupted by such changes in patterns. Monthly observation of the new moons, and observations of the agricultural cycles (as the ancient Jews did to synchronize the lunar and solar cycles), are not affected by supernatural events because the calendar is synchronized to the heavenly bodies every month and every year.

For example, if we know that Christ’s coming will be on Yom Kippur (Tishri 10), and that is calculated by first observing the new moon (Rosh Hashanna), making that the first day of Tishri, and counting the days until the 10th of the month, then precise predictability as to the exact day can only be valid 10 days in advance. Converting the date in advance to our calendar with absolute certainty is not possible.

[Anders G]

Yes, I understand that astronomical (“real”) months are always between 29 and 30 days in lenght. But nothing in the links you provide says anything about the lenghts of observed monthly lenghts. So in your statement…

“Observationally, (as far as we know) there has never been a lunar month more than 30 days or less than 29 days”

… the parenthesis is of crucial importance. Do we really know (from confirmed sources) that the Jews started a new month even if (the sliver of) the new moon wasn’t seen on day 30 (or postponed it if the new moon was sighted on day 28)?

Forgive my persistence, but I find the question important in deciding the wiggle room for the biblical prophecies

[Timothy]

Anders,

While the following Britanica article does not specifically address the Jewish practice, …
https://www.britannica.com/science/calendar/Time-determination-by-stars-Sun-and-Moon
… it is a well-known fact that many ancient civilizations used a luni-solar calendar and calculated the months by observing the new moon. These ancient civilizations understood that a lunar month was 29 or 30 days in length, and they referred to a 29-day month as “hallow” and a 30-day month as “full.” That these are the terms used is sufficient evidence IMO that 29-day or 30-day months were always reckoned.

I really do not understand why you think this question is “of crucial importance” regarding future prophecy. Even though I claim that we should interpret prophetic calendrical statements using the ancient Jewish method, that does not affect how we understand the events of prophecy unfolding in the end-times. IF the ancient Jews occasionally had a longer month because weather did not allow the observance of the new moon, this would be corrected the following month. There is a continuous synchronization of the calendrical months with the lunar cycle, so that any error would be corrected and the calendar would remain on track.

As far as yet unfulfilled prophecy, assuming that it is given using the ancient observational method (rather than NASA tables), it should be understood according to the ancient common method of 29-day “hallow” months, and 30-day “full” months. That there apparently was no name for a month longer than 30 days or shorter then 29 days makes this a moot point IMO. For example, the 42 months in Rev. 13:5 should be understood as either 29 or 30 days, unless of course one interprets the Greek word translated “months” as “moons.” In that case, it would mean 42 new moons which could be anywhere from 1210 to 1239 days.

Maybe if you could give me an example of how this would make a difference with a specific prophecy I could better address the issue.

[Anders G]

Tim,
One example where the possible month-lengths can make a difference is the hypothesis that the “2300 evenings and mornings” in Dan 8:14 is the combined lengths of Antiochos’ and Antichrist’s defilements of the temple. Antiochos did it for 3 years, Antichrist did it for 3,5 years, and (3+3.5)x12 is 78 months. With an average monthly length of 29,53 days this turns out to be 2303 days, i.e. a difference of 3 days from Daniel’s prophecy.

Is this difference explainable if a given month only can be 29 or 30 days?

[Timothy]

Anders, what is more important to that question is the intercalation of a 13th month. The calculation of 2300 days cannot allow for any intercalation in either period. So, there is no way to know for certain. The likelihood of an intercalary month being assigned by the priesthood is probably slim, since the priesthood had in part been corrupted by Greek paganism, and the remaining faithful priests were fighting a war led by Judah Maccabee. The claim in the book of Maccabees and in Josephus is that the Temple was cleansed on the same day of the same month 3 years after it was defiled. But how was this reckoned? Was it inclusive or exclusive reckoning?

Regarding the 42 months of Antichrist’s reign, 42 months does not necessarily have to be exactly 1239 24-hour days, given the fact that the Jews typically counted any part of a whole as a whole. So, a period of say 1235 days would still be described as “42 months.”

In the description of Noah’s flood, the text says that the waters prevailed 150 days, but also describes this as 5 months. Does 5 months equal exactly 150 days? No, 5 months equals 147.5 days.

Also, the 29.5 day lunar month you are using is an average over many hundreds of years. It is not proper to suppose that a short period of time, say 3 years, MUST consist of 36 months of 29.5 days. There were times in the past when the average lunar month over a short period of time (say a few years) averaged significantly less than 29.5 and times when it averaged more than 29.5. But as far as we can tell now, it is never LESS than 29 days and never MORE than 30 days. However, in times past there were periods when there were more 29-day months in a year than 30-day months. This difference, and the need for an average, is of course due to the moon’s elliptical orbit and the fact that its orbital plane is not the same as the earth’s orbital plane. That average works reasonably well when we are speaking of very long periods of time. But it is not accurate for short periods of time. So yes, it is well within the realm of possibility that the 3 years to the day described by Maccabees and Josephus could have been a few days less than 1,062 days (36×29.5).

In the article I linked in a previous post, the following was stated:

“In the period from 1600 to 2600, an average lunar month lasts 29.530575 days or 29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes, and 2 seconds. The shortest lunar month ended July 17, 1708 and lasted 29.271819 days (29 days, 6 hours, 31 minutes, and 25 seconds), while the longest was the one that ended on January 14, 1611 and lasted 29.832568 days (29 days, 19 hours, 58 minutes, and 54 seconds).”

https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/moon/lunar-month.html

At various times, using the observation method which only allows for WHOLE days, there can be consecutive months with 29 days. If that was to occur twice within the three year period in question in the Maccabean times, that would account for the discrepancy.

[Anders G]

Tim, my aim is not to prove the hypothesis about the 2300 evenings and mornings. I realize this is not doable due to possible leap months and others. Instead, my aim it to make sure it cannot be falsified, and – considering your information – this seems to be the case.

It is also obvious that we cannot predict God’s supernational interventions (by definition). But I find it interesting that we neither can predict chaotic systems, even though they are deterministic. And as far as I can understand, the sun-earth-moon system is chaotic, meaning that its orbits may change in ways that are impossible to predict both concerning when and how it may happen.

[Timothy]

Anders,

I have tried to falsify my interpretation of the 2300 days and have not been able to do so due to the unknown variables. However, the same variables also make it impossible to prove. So, IMO, it remains a reasonable theory. Its value and weight comes from the fact that it allows certain other passages (esp. Dan. 8 & 11) to be reconciled which have seemed to contain contradictory information (passages that seem to speak of Antiochus and Antichrist as the same person without distinction within the same context).

[Author]

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