God’s Spirit is a person?
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Anders G.
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August 30, 2024 at 12:05 pm #5298
Anders G
ParticipantTim,
In your teachings, you have pointed out that the translation ”He/Him” referring to God’s Spirit/Breath cannot be used as an argument that the Spirit is a person. This due to the fact that ”Helper” is masculine in Greek, and ”Spirit” is neuter. However, how can we explain following passage:
[Jhn 16:13-14 KJV] 13 Howbeit when he [masculine], the Spirit [neuter] of truth, is come, he [3rd person] will guide you into all truth: for he [3rd person] shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he [3rd person] shall hear, that shall he [3rd person] speak: and he [3rd person] will shew you things to come. 14 He [masculine] shall glorify me: for he [3rd person] shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Thanks
/Anders -
August 30, 2024 at 12:24 pm #5299
Timothy
KeymasterAnders,
A pronoun must always agree in number and gender with its antecedent/referent. Therefore, in vs. 13, the masculine pronoun ἐκεῖνος does NOT have “Spirit” as its referent. Rather, its antecedent/referent is “Helper” in verse 7.
The confusion is created because the text uses two different titles to refer to the same entity in this dialogue, the “Spirit of Truth” (which is neuter) and the “Helper” (which is masculine). Since both of these are titles for some kind of entity, whether this is a “person” or not cannot be determined from such titles alone. That is, one cannot rightly argue that since “Spirit” is neuter, this entity cannot be a non-person. Likewise, because “Helper” is masculine in Greek, one cannot rightly argue that this must be a person. The gender of titles/names for nouns do not necessarily indicate personhood or non-personhood. Many non-personal nouns are masculine or feminine in Greek.
In English the gender of nouns is different, using masculine pronouns exclusively for male persons, and feminine pronouns exclusively for females, and using the neuter pronoun for all non-personal entities. This is not the case in Greek. This makes translating this passage very difficult, because the translator has to choose a pronoun in English either masculine or neuter, but in doing so, he has the potential to mislead the English reader. If the translation is done very literally, the same entity would be called sometimes “it” and sometimes “he.” So in essence, the translator has to choose based on other considerations, and one’s general understanding of what or who the Spirit is.
So you can substitute the masculine noun “Helper” in every place where there is a masculine pronoun in those verses, and you can substitute “Spirit of Truth” whenever there is a neuter pronoun. For third person verbs, you should substitute the last named entity before the verb, (either “Helper” or “Spirit of Truth”).
Another point that needs clarification is that the “Spirit of God” (while neuter) the genitive “of God” implies personhood in some sense. In other words, whatever personal characteristics we infer about the “Spirit of God” are those of “God” (the Father), not a third person. So whenever the “Spirit” is portrayed in personal terms, it is normally the person of the Father that is being associated, but occasionally it is the person of Christ. We also have terms such as “the Spirit of Christ” (Rom. 8:9; 1 Pet. 1:11). No one supposes that there are 5 divine persons: the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of your Father, and the Spirit of Christ.
Consider how the terminology is used in the three parallel passages: Matt. 10:20; Mark 13:11; Luke 21:14-15. Also, take a look at Rom. 8:9-11.
Grace & Peace, Tim
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August 30, 2024 at 2:50 pm #5300
Anders G
ParticipantThanks Tim!
In English, we may choose pronouns to express personhood to neuter things, like calling a female dog ”she”, or a male spirit ”he”. Is this impossible in Greek? -
August 30, 2024 at 5:55 pm #5301
Timothy
KeymasterThe sex of animals is not normally indicated in the Greek. For example, in Gen. 22:3 Abraham saddled his “donkey” (which is grammatically feminine in Greek {LXX}), so any pronouns referring to it must also be feminine. But this does not indicate the sex of the donkey as female. It is just that the noun “donkey” is always grammatically feminine in Greek. The grammatical gender of other animals may be always masculine or always neuter. A “bear” is always feminine grammatically. All Greek nouns have a fixed gender which is not inflected to indicate sex when referring to animals. The noun “lion” λέων is always masculine, whether it refers to a male lion or to a lioness. See Ezek. 19:2 for an example of a young female lioness called a “lion-whelp” σκύμνος (masculine). Again, when a pronoun is used in reference to an animal, it must agree in gender with the noun (regardless of sex of the animal), and therefore the pronouns also do not indicate the sex of the animal in Greek.
With humans, Greek has completely different nouns to refer to the sexes, “man” and “woman.” But “anthropos” refers to “humans” and includes male and female. A “child” or “youth” in Greek is neuter, but this does not mean the child is sexless.
Grammatical “gender” is an entirely different thing than “sex.” There is certainly some overlap. For example, personal names given to girls are normally feminine nouns, and names chosen for boys are usually masculine.
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August 31, 2024 at 7:19 am #5302
Anders G
ParticipantI understand that animals with he/she-gender does not say anything about their sex.
But my question was the other way around. Is it impossible to call a neuter-gender for he/she to indicate their sex? E.g. can a “youth” or a “child” be called he/she in Greek?
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August 31, 2024 at 9:00 am #5303
Timothy
KeymasterI am not sure I understand your question. The nouns “youth” or “child” in Greek are neuter nouns, even if they refer to a boy or a girl, so any pronoun that refers back to either term would have to be neuter. In order to indicate the sex of a child or youth, one would have to use a different noun that indicates sex, such as “son” or “daughter” or “boy” or “girl.”
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August 31, 2024 at 11:40 am #5304
Anders G
ParticipantMaybe there is a difference between Swedish and English. In Swedish a dog may be called he or she even if “hund” (= dog) is neuter. Maybe English (and Greek) is stricter?
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August 31, 2024 at 6:35 pm #5305
Timothy
KeymasterOK. In English that is also the case. I am not sure whether in spoken Greek one might do that. But in written biblical Greek, one would use the pronoun that agrees in gender with the particular noun, regardless of sex.
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September 1, 2024 at 7:01 am #5306
Anders G
ParticipantI get it. Thanks!
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