Are the Two Others in Daniel 12:5-7 the 2 Witnesses In Revelation

[Raymond]

Hi Everyone,

I am currently in a debate with a lady who is battling with idea of the parenthetical section of the bible in Revelation 10-11:13. I wrote about the tip about the 1,260 days being for the first part of tribulation and 42 months and “a time, times and half a time” for the last part of tribulation. She is trying to say that the 2 witnesses prophecy in the second half of the tribulation due to Rev 11:14 saying the the second woe has now past just after the the 2 witnesses being covered in Rev 10 thru to 11:13 plus what Daniel 12:5-7 states. Therefore it is not true that when it says 1,260 days always applies to the first part of the tribulation. Her sequence of events is all the seals, and the trumpets and bowls are kickoff by the last seal and they run concurrently.

She uses this scripture in Daniel to make her case stating that she believes that these two others are the 2 witnesses from Revelation. I don’t believe they are but I don’t know who these 2 others are.

Any suggestions or insights.

Daniel 12:5-7  Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank.  6  And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?”  7  Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

Thanks
Raymond

[Randy A]

Raymond,
The fact that “worshipping” is taken place during this time of measuring and the mentioning of the two witnesses in Revelation 11 demands this to be prior to the Abomination of Desolation.

The temple worship is not going to be allowed after the AoD as it is the event that puts a stop to those things.

With the power that the two witnesses possess, it doesn’t stand to reason that the beast will have full reign which he will have after the AoD. The two witnesses could stop him if this were the case which is why the beast kills him as he terrorizes the saints.

I do not see any way the two witnesses are on the scene during the 42 months, or time, times, and half a time.

[Raymond]

Thanks Randy.

I think the lady has taken the view by looking at Daniel 12:5-7 first and then trying to place this portion of scripture into Revelation she has decided that because it mentions a “time, times and half a time” and her misunderstanding of Rev 10-11:13 being in sequence and not parenthetical has confused the whole issue.

I made a post stating this :-
1,260 days always refers to the first half of the tribulation.
42 Months and a time, times and half a time always refer to the last half of the tribulation.

She disagreed due to Daniel 12:5-7 indicating that one of the two witnesses using the time, times and half a time and so my summary is incorrect.
You read the Daniel portion of scripture as stating that one of the 2 witnesses is telling Daniel that the the last half of the tribulation will be time times and half a time, which makes more sense.

I thought if I could identify the two others that it might clear up this criticism from her.

She is not willing to debate buts seems to want to convince people that she is correct and other are wrong.
I think she is a pre-tribulation stalwart.

Thanks
Raymond

[Randy A]

The fact that the Apostle John is likely one of the two witnesses would exclude the possibility of the two individuals in Daniel 12 to be the two witnesses of Revelation 11 since John was not going to be born until well into the future.

I suppose I don not see her point. Just because one prophesied about “time, times, and half a time”, and this one was one of “two others”, is a far reach for an inference regarding one of the witnesses.

Look what John says in John 1:9

“I, John, both your brother and companion in THE tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ,…..”

Then John is told he must prophesy again in Revelation 10:11.

These are strong clues that John will be one of the two prophets witnessing during the first part of the tribulation while worshipping is allowed. The “two others” of Daniel 12, would not include the Apostle John.

[Raymond]

Randy,

I am right on board with John being 1 one witness and Elijah being the other. It is so plain when you see the text after the 7 thunders portion of scripture, plus the companion mention in Rev 1.

You make a great point that John would not been referred to in Daniel as one of the others.

I first thought when reading that portion of scripture was that it was not the two witnesses.
Surely the Lord would have led Daniel to write two witnesses if that was the case.

Blessings Raymond

[Author]

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