Timothy
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Lena,
Welcome to the forum.
I am not well versed in Hebrew, so my opinion probably isn’t worth much. The term “Tetragrammaton” simply means “four letters.” Those letters are yodh, he, waw, and he (YHWH or possibly YHVH depending on pronunciation preferences). Hebrew scholars tend to favor the idea that YHWH was derived from the statement in Exod. 3:14 “And God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM’; and He said, ‘Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, “I AM has sent me to you.”‘” (NASB).
But I do not think even the best Hebrew scholars can prove the exact source of those 4 letters. Also, what vowel sounds may have originally been between the four consonants is impossible to know. Such information would be needed in order to reconstruct the meaning the way you have done. In any case, it is recognized by most that the statement in Exod. 3:14 means something like “the self-existing one.” This implies that He is the prime cause of all that exists as well as needing nothing external to Himself. If YHVH has a deeper or fuller meaning beyond that I cannot determine with my very limited knowledge of Hebrew.
We know that “God is love” from John’s books. And we know also that the hidden “name” of God that Jesus declared to His disciples was not YHWH but “Father” (John 17:6,26). So both of those concepts are biblical, but I do not think we can know whether they are somehow hidden in the name YHWH.
Regarding the word “abba” meaning “father” I believe that is Aramaic (aleph-bet-aleph) derived from the Hebrew aleph-bet. It is not aleph-waw so I do not think “father” should be inferred.
Anders,
It is clear that the Day of the Lord begins with Christ’s return (1 Thess. 5:1-2). So it must include the battle of Armageddon. Isaiah 1 states twice that “the Lord alone will be exalted in that day”, and that the idols will be abolished. 2 Peter 3 describes the purging of the land by fire on the “Day of the Lord.” Yet other passages, where the Day of the Lord is mentioned, the blessings upon God’s people are also described as occurring “in that day.” For example, in Joel 3:9-21, the cosmic signs announce the “Day of the Lord” which then begins with the battle of Armageddon. But vs. 18 says: “And it will come to pass in that day That the mountains shall drip with new wine, The hills shall flow with milk, And all the brooks of Judah shall be flooded with water; A fountain shall flow from the house of the LORD And water the Valley of Acacias.”. Again, in Zech. 14, the Day of the Lord describes the same battle, but then vss. 8-9 say: ” 8 And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, Half of them toward the eastern sea And half of them toward the western sea; In both summer and winter it shall occur. And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be– “The LORD is one,” And His name one.” This seems to include the entire reign of Christ as being included in “that day” which is the “Day of the Lord.”
As a side note, when referring to the Day being a millennium (as in Psalm 90:4 & 2 Pet. 3:8) Justin quoted that statement as “the Day of the Lord is as a thousand years” rather than “a day with the Lord is as a thousand years.”
For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, ‘They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.’ (Justin Dialogue with Trypho, 81).
Irenaeus did the same in Against Heresies, Bk. V, ch. 23 and again in ch. 28. So these early Chiliasts understood the Day of the Lord to be the 7th Millennium.
IMO, the primary focus is the day of Christ’s return. But in a secondary sense it seems to include the entire 7th millennium.
Raymond,
One important point is that the cosmic signs of Matt. 24:29 occur “immediately after the tribulation” and these same signs are before “Day of the Lord” (Joel 2:31 & Acts 2:20). So it is evident that the “Day of the Lord” does not include or overlap the tribulation.
As to whether the Day of the Lord is a single 24-hour day, or whether it refers to the entire Millennium, IMO it is the 7th Day, the entire millennium of Christ’s reign. Peter referred to the beginning of Christ’s reign as the dawning of the Day (2 Pet. 1:19). This is also alluded to in Mal. 4:1-2. Several passages that refer to the Day of the LORD in the prophets go on to state that many things will occur “in that day” which must occur over a long period, perhaps the entire millennium.
Dave,
There is considerable doubt that the reading in our common versions of Matthew 28:19 was what Matthew actually wrote. Several early fathers stated that Matthew wrote in Aramaic, not Greek, and that the Greek copies were translated later. Eusebius had access to an Aramaic copy of the original Matthew, and he quoted this passage several times in his writings without the so-called “Trinitarian” baptismal formula. Consider the following quote from Eusebius.
“With one word and voice He said to His disciples: ‘Go, and make disciples of all the nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you,’ and He joined the effect to His Word; and in a little while every race of the Greeks and Barbarians was being brought into discipleship, and laws were spread among all nations opposed to the superstition of the ancients. But while the disciples of Jesus were most likely either saying thus, or thinking thus, the Master solved their difficulties, by the addition of one phrase, saying they should triumph ‘In MY NAME.’ For He did not bid them simply and indefinitely make disciples of all nations, but with the necessary addition of ‘In my Name.’ And the power of His Name being so great, that the apostle says: ‘God has given him a name which is above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth,’ He shewed the virtue of the power in His Name concealed from the crowd when He said to His disciples: ‘Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name.’ He also most accurately forecasts the future when He says: ‘For this gospel must first be preached to all the world, for a witness to all nations.’ But when I turn my eyes away to the evidence of the power of the Word, what multitudes it has won, and what enormous churches have been founded by those unlettered and mean disciples of Jesus, not in obscure and unknown places, but in the most noble cities – I mean in Royal Rome, in Alexandria, and Antioch, throughout the whole of Egypt and Libya, Europe and Asia, and in villages and country places and among the nations – I am irresistibly forced to retrace my steps, and search for their cause, and to confess that they could only have succeeded in their daring venture, by a power more divine, and more strong than man’s, and by the co-operation of Him Who said to them: ‘Make disciples of all the nations in My Name.’” (Eusebius – Demonstratio Evangelica: Bk. III, chs. vi-vii {AD 313}).
See: https://4windsfellowships.net/articles/God/Evolution_007.pdf pages 9-16 for many more quotes.
Another fact which argues for Eusebius’ reading and against the common reading is that throughout Acts, people were baptized in the name of Jesus alone, never in an alleged Trinitarian scheme. Similarly, Romans 6 defines the meaning of baptism as being buried with Christ and arising with Him. Paul does the same in Col. 2:12,20. Thus, baptism is about being joined to Christ. It is pretty hard to fit a Trinity into Paul’s explanation of baptism.
Thank you, Raymond. That means a great deal to me. Yes, I have had a lot of opposition, and been on the verge of quitting several times. But each time I have received a fresh wind in my sails, and a new compass heading, and some new friends (and some faithful old friends) who have kept this little vessel afloat. Plus my wife won’t let me quit. 🙂
Anders,
Would you please put your name or a copyright on the graphic? Also, is it OK for me to copy and upload it to the 4Winds site? Or would you rather that I link to the pic on your site?
Raymond,
You have to understand that the Bible refers to particular cities, such as Babylon, Tyre, Rome, etc. as the seat of power. It is called the “Babylonian” kingdom because the power reached from the city of Babylon to far-away places, same with Rome. The Babylonian Kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar was overthrown when the city of Babylon was overthrown by Cyrus, not because the entire territory which Babylon controlled was conquered place by place, but because the seat of power was conquered.
What Daniel teaches is that the 10 final kings will come out of the 4th Beast which is the Roman Empire. The city of Rome still exercises significant power over much of Europe (the Roman Empire). However, the 10 kings which arise out of the Roman Empire (Europe) will turn against the city of Rome which houses the Vatican, and will destroy it. This will bring a complete end to the Vatican and its influence. Since Roman Catholicism and the Vatican is considered the locus of “Christianity” as far as most of the world is concerned, this will be seen as the complete overthrow of the “Christian” empire and the destruction of Christianity (at least as far as Europe is concerned. Consequently, the authority that Rome holds over many nations will then be transferred to the Antichrist and his Kingdom. Just as Cyrus overthrew Babylon, these ten kings will overthrow the so-called “Christian” empire with the destruction of one city.
Anders,
Do you mind if I reproduce that graphic for a Revelation class I am co-teaching at church? Also, can I have your permission to put it on the 4Winds site in the BBI-11 page?
As a suggestion, at the end of the 7 Messengers line you have M47. Should that be M4-7?
Raymond,
What I can say for sure is that the 10 kings will give their authority (over whatever territory they govern) to the Antichrist. Those 10 kings all arise from the territory of the old Roman Empire according to Daniel. So, IMO, the Antichrist’s Kingdom will be mostly limited to the extent of that ancient empire.
However, as you know economies are linked by trade agreements. So what happens in Antichrist’s Kingdom will have a ripple effect around the world. There is no way that I know of to predict how this will impact particular nations outside of the territories of the 10 kings.
I believe China plays a significant part in Revelation regarding the “kings of the east.” But this does not appear to enter the picture until just before Armageddon.
As far as preparing those we know for what is coming, location is not what is important. What is important is that we have spotless robes. The primary theme in Revelation is about the fact that those with stained robes will NOT be allowed into the marriage supper (Kingdom), nor will those with stained robes be preserved by God during the time of tribulation. The overriding message in Revelation is becoming an “overcomer” over the world, the flesh, and the devil. And those who take these things seriously the warnings will have the promises contained in the seven letters regarding both a place in the Kingdom and preservation during the tribulation. Those who think that physical preparation or location are the important things are in for a very rude awakening, especially if they are disobedient to the commands of God in Scripture. Only the ones included in the statement, “the Bride has made herself ready” will take part in the marriage of the Lamb.
Those who are preparing themselves by becoming “overcomers” and washing their robes will absolutely understand what is happening and they will not take the mark of the beast. Those who are not “overcoming” in their personal lives, who are self-deceived into thinking that they can ignore some of God’s commands in Scripture and still be OK, will also be deceived into taking the mark of the beast. The deception is incremental, when you tolerate a little deception, Satan gives you a little more, then a little more, until you have completely lost your way. Satan will then throw you a life-preserver — the mark of the beast.
Thanks, Randy and Anders. Also, I think it is important to recognize that the “Gospel” is qualified as (literally) “the everlasting Gospel” (“the permanent good message” – LGV). Jesus said (in Matt. 24:15-15), “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Therefore when you see the`abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place whoever reads, let him understand”.
“This Gospel of the Kingdom” is the TRUE and COMPLETE Gospel which contains the true HOPE of the coming Kingdom. It is “the Faith” that was introduced first with Abel, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, etc., all of the saints of Hebrews 11, and also includes us. The “HOPE” of this Gospel is consistent from Genesis to Revelation. It is the seventh Day (7th Millennium) our Sabbath Rest, the Kingdom. This true Faith has been administered by the very same High Priest since creation, who is “Priest of the Most-High God,” “King of Salem” (Jerusalem) “King of Peace,” and “King of Righteousness.” (Heb. 7)
Maybe we ought to consider whether a “Gospel” which is a later fabrication of Rome contains a fictitious hope borrowed from Greek mythology and philosophy can satisfy this criterion. After all, “gospel” means “good news” and necessarily points to the resurrection and inheritance which is linked to the Kingdom, not to heaven. The “hope” contained in “good news” preached by many Christians is allegedly to be realized when the believer DIES not when he is raised bodily at Jesus’ return. The so-called “Gospel” of a heavenly destiny is not really “the good news of the Kingdom.”
Raymond,
You ask some very good questions 🙂
The “Holy Spirit” is “the Spirit/Breath of God” the Father. So while the “Spirit/Breath” is not a Person by itself, it is both an impersonal aspect of God (such as the “hand of God”) yet it is also an extension of His Person. If the “hand of God” or “finger of God” or “arm of the LORD” is said to do something, it is still the Person of God who did that thing by extension. So it is a mistake to view the “Spirit/Breath” as either completely impersonal or completely personal (as a distinct Person).
Keep in mind that God Himself (the Father), as a whole Being, cannot be contained in any single place. He is bigger and more powerful than the entire universe, which is like a snow-globe on His desk by comparison. Solomon said in reference to the Temple, “the heaven of heavens cannot You, how much less this house that I have built” (1 Kings 8:27; 2 Chron. 2:6,18). Scripture states several times that no one has ever seen God (ex. John 1:18), that He is the “invisible God” (Col. 1:15), that He cannot be seen by humans (1 Tim. 6:16). Yet He has personally reached into the creation by His “Spirit/Breath” to accomplish many things, such as the plagues of Egypt.
Jesus stated that the Father was dwelling in Him. This was not that the Father was fully contained in a human body, but rather the Spirit/Breath of the Father dwelling in Jesus performed His works. Note that the “Spirit/Breath” of God dwelling in Jesus was called by Him “the finger of God,” which implies a limited extension of God Himself.
Matt. 12:28 (ESV) But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Luke 11:20 (ESV) 20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
As the “Son of Man” (the human Jesus), blasphemy against Him by Israel or its leaders could potentially be forgiven, and it was forgiven to many Jews on the Day of Pentecost (cf. Acts 2:23,37-40). But blasphemy of the Spirit/Breath of God is blasphemy against the invisible power and person behind the miracles, the invisible One who was the very source of Jesus Himself and all of the miracles that God did through Him.
John 5:19,30 (LGV) 19 Then Jesus responded and said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son is powerless to perform from himself – not even one thing … 30 I am powerless to perform from Myself – not one thing.
John 14:8-10 (LGV) 8 Philip says to Him, “Master, show us the Father and it satisfies us.” 9 Jesus says to him, “So much time I am with you, and you have not known Me, Philip? The one having seen Me has seen the Father, and how are you saying show us the Father? 10 Do you not
believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The sayings that I speak to you, I am not speaking from Myself. Also the Father, the one dwelling in Me, He is performing the deeds.Acts 2:22 (ESV) 22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know —
The context of Matt. 12:31-32 dealt with the real source of Jesus’ power, whether it was demonic or the power of the one true God. Blasphemy against God’s Agent (Jesus) was one thing. But it was a far more serious crime to attribute the power and actions of God the Father to demons.
If you think about this carefully, you should notice that this passage is very problematic for Trinitarians. If the Father, Son, and Spirit are three co-equal and co-eternal Persons as Trinitarians insist, why is the “third Person” elevated above the “second Person” explicitly and even above the “first Person” implicitly? However, when it is understood that the “Spirit/Breath” of the Father in Jesus, the “finger of God” by which He cast out demons, was an invisible extension of the Father Himself, it all makes perfect sense. One can blaspheme God’s Agent, His Messenger, and be forgiven after repentance. But to attribute the invisible power and will, the invisible source of Jesus’ miracles and power over demons, as being itself demonic, was unforgivable. This is because it effectively calls God Himself “Beelzebul” the prince of demons (Satan).
Raymond,
BBI Module VI has a video (and audio) series:
https://4windsfellowships.net/bbi_06.htmlTim
Raymond,
I agree with Randy’s explanation. The phrase in Rom. 11:25 is “until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” It is a reference to the completion of a predetermined period of time, not to a specific number of people, since individuals are not predetermined to salvation (as in Calvinism), however time periods are predetermined (see Acts 1:7; Heb. 1:1 LGV footnotes). For the idea of the “fullness” (completion) of a predetermined period of time, see Gal. 4:4 & Eph. 1:10.
There is a similar statement in Luke 21:24, “And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled” (NKJV). IMO, Paul had this statement from Jesus in mind when he wrote the statement in Rom. 11. It is only recorded in Luke’s Gospel, and Paul sometimes referred to Luke’s Gospel as “my Gospel,” since Luke was Paul’s assistant and wrote his Gospel while accompanying Paul in his mission to the gentiles.
Also, note that in both of these passages the context is really about Israel and Jerusalem, not the Gentiles. In Luke 21 the subject is the duration of the time set apart for Israel’s second exile from the land (1960 years), which is characterized by the “desolation” of Jerusalem, meaning no priesthood or Temple (cf. Matt. 23:38; Luke 21:5-6), just as in the first exile (Jer. 7:8-12; Jer. 19:8; Jer. 22:1-12; Jer. 26:1-12). In Romans 11 the subject is the length of time of Israel’s imposed “blindness” which coincides with the second exile. In both passages the gentiles are mostly a footnote, which Paul then employed to stress the great opportunity that God was giving to the remaining nations to receive a blessing due to Israel’s judgement, since Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles and that was his focus.
Also, note that the trampling of Jerusalem by the gentiles in Luke 21 is for the duration of Israel’s second exile, and then it ends. This is because of the brief period allotted to Israel’s national repentance, when God renews the “covenant” for one week (7 years). During this time the Temple worship is to be reinstated as described in Rev. 11:1. The 2 witnesses will prophesy for the first 1260 days, then be killed at the time of the Abomination of Desolation. Then according to the parenthetical statement in Rev. 11:2 Jerusalem will be trampled again for the remaining 42 months.
One final point. In Matt. 24:14 Jesus stated that the Gospel of the Kingdom must be proclaimed in all nations, and then the end will come. IMO, this is a set period of time that corresponds to Israel’s second (1960-year) exile. It is a time marker for when the 70th week will commence, and the “blindness” upon Israel will be lifted allowing them time for national repentance as prophesied by Moses in Deut. 30. So in all of these statements of Scripture, no reference is ever made to the total number of individuals who will be, or can be, saved. As Randy alluded, even though Israel is in “blindness” nationally some Jews are still saved during this age. Consequently, just because the benchmark is reached at the beginning of the 70th week regarding the Gospel having been proclaimed to all nations, this does not mean that on an individual basis no one can share the Gospel or that no one can be saved. The opportunity for repentance and salvation is open for all individuals until God gives up on them individually (as described in Rom. 1:18-32), or after having been a believer they apostatize from the Faith (as in Heb. 6:4-8 & 10:24-31), or when someone takes the mark of the beast (Rev. 14:9-10).
IMO, it is important to distinguish between what God says about His overall plan and its timetable vs. what He says about individuals regarding salvation.
Yes, IMO these are the ones Zechariah spoke about in the following passage:
Zech. 12:8-11 (NKJ) 8 “In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the LORD before them.
9 “It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
11 “In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.Zechariah 13:1 (NKJ) 1 “In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness.
2 “It shall be in that day,” says the LORD of hosts, “that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they shall no longer be remembered. I will also cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to depart from the land.Rev. 1:7 (NKJ) 7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
