Timothy
Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Anders,
In Rev. 8:2,6 John saw seven angels with seven trumpets. IMO, they must be 7 distinct beings.
Again, in 15:1 John saw seven angels who had the seven last plagues (bowls). Again, IMO, these must be distinct beings.
In 17:1 “one of the seven angels” spoke to John and showed him ‘Mystery Babylon.’ One of seven requires seven distinct beings.
Anders,
Your measurements need to be more precise than merely 0.1 degrees in order to observe what I was talking about. I am using Redshift 7 which has a measuring tool to measure the distances between objects. You can zoom in and then take very precise measurements. Here are the measurements between the closest passes between Venus and Regulus this century measuring from the center of Regulus to the center of Venus using the measuring tool when the distance is the least.
Oct. 03, 2004 00 deg. 09’02.31″
Oct. 03, 2012 00 deg. 07’01.22″
Oct. 02, 2020 00 deg. 05’12.96″
Oct. 02, 2028 00 deg. 03’21.53″
Oct. 01, 2036 00 deg. 01’24.35″
Oct. 01, 2044 00 occultationThese observations would not be considered important or spectacular unless one understands the convergence of the following things: the Feast calendar and significance of Yom Kippur, the Mazzaroth (the significance of the 12 constellations – Leo the lion representing Christ and the Kingdom, and the brightest star – Regulus, meaning “King”), that the 6000th year from creation begins on that very day, and Jesus’ statement “I am the Root and Offspring of David, the bright and morning star” (Rev. 22:16). Jesus is obviously not the planet Venus, so there must be some mystery or enigma regarding Venus’ (morning star) relationship to Christ as King, (the seed of David).
My theory is that the closest observable pass when Venus (morning star) passes below Regulus, so that to the naked eye Regulus crowns Venus on Oct. 1-2, 2036, which also happens to be the Day of Atonement, and also exactly the day that the 6,000th year begins (120th Jubilee year), is a bit too much to be pure coincidence. Of course, both of these are dependent on the interpretation of the symbols in my Mazzaroth Book and the chronology in my Time of the End book being correct. I only discovered this apparent coincidence recently, when teaching through Revelation (Module 11). For me it adds another piece of evidence for the validity of the chronology.
I believe that all of the signs given in Scripture are from the perspective of observation with the naked eye, in exactly the way that the ancient Jews calculated the holy days. That it is Yom Kippur is based on observation of the New Moon (Rosh Hashanna), and then counting to the 10th day of the month.
Regarding how to predict a new moon in the future, this is based on many experiments that I did when I was writing my book. I was using the same Redshift 7 program, and observing how many degrees following the sun (after sunset) a new moon could be spotted by the naked eye. You cannot observe an astronomical new moon with the naked eye because the sky is still much too bright at the moment of sunset. My conclusion was that the moon must be at least 12-14 degrees above the horizon at sunset in order for the sky to be dark enough to spot the faint sliver of the new moon before it also sets below the horizon. I observed many New Moons one or two days after the astronomical new moons and kept tables. I would observe each night beginning at sunset on the day and following days of an astronomical new moon. When the sky was clear and I could barely spot a new moon, I would check the astronomy program for that day and time and measure the number of degrees from the new moon to the horizon at sunset. By observing this over many months, usually from the top of the parking garage at Tampa International airport, I was able to determine the minimum number of degrees the moon must be following the sun in order for a new moon to be visible, at least 12-14 degrees AFTER the astronomical new moon. Consequently, I use the astronomy program to find the date when Rosh Hashanna begins at sunset when the moon is at minimum 12-14 degrees above the horizon at sunset. That is how I can calculate the future feast days on the biblical calendar. For 2036, The New Moon for Rosh Hashanna will be 14 degrees above the horizon at sunset on Sept. 21. So Sept. 22 is the earliest that Rosh Hashanna can occur. But there is also a 2 day window to account for weather conditions. Using the Jewish observational method, if weather conditions would not allow a possible new moon to be seen, they would look for it the following day. If weather was still an issue, they would never exceed 30 days from the previous new moon. On any given month, the new moon was possibly spotted either 29 or 30 days after the previous new moon. In any case, the possible dates for Rosh Hashanna in 2036 are Sept. 22-23 (using the observational method). Either of these days could be Rosh Hashanna, which is Tishri 1 on the Biblical calendar. That means that Tishri 10 (Yom Kippur) will be on Oct. 1 or 2.
Interesting observation. The “Son of Man” is also the “Messenger (Angel) of God” in Rev. 1:1,13.
On another note, what do you make of “another mighty angel” in Rev. 10:1 who is “clothed with a cloud. And a rainbow was on his head, his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire.” That sounds a lot like the “Son of Man” in Rev. 1, who is also the “Son of Man” in Rev. 14:14.
And what of the “7 thunders” in Rev. 10:4 which all uttered their voices when the “mighty angel” roars? And why was the message of the 7 thunders not written down? John heard and understood what the 7 thunders said. He just did not put it in writing. If he knew what the 7 thunders said, is it possible that he passed that down orally to his students?
Pramod,
The New Testament is clear that Christians (regardless of ethnicity) will act as “priests” in the Temple of God in the Kingdom.
Revelation 20:6 (NASB) Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Revelation 3:12 (NASB) ‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
These things were said to the “seven churches” of Asia Minor, which were comprised mostly of Gentiles.
Regarding the Kingdom Temple in Ezekiel 40-48, it is important to understand who the intended audience was of Ezekiel’s prophecy. It was not written for us, or even with us in mind. It was written to the Jews who had just been carried into captivity by Nebuchadnezzar. This particular vision was given to Israel to encourage them in their present circumstances and give them great hope that the Kingdom will indeed come.
Consequently, it uses language that would be meaningful to them. An “uncircumcised” person to them was a derogatory term, a euphemism for a pagan, one who worshipped a god other than the God of Abraham. At the time, men who were worshippers of the one true God were required to be circumcised in their flesh. This even applied to proselytes (gentiles) who were joined to Israel. So to the original audience, this statement meant that no pagans would enter God’s Temple. Then the statement that neither will the “uncircumcised in heart” be allowed, this refers to Israelites whose religion was merely external.
Ephesians 2 makes it clear that Gentile Christians are “brought near” to Israel and the covenants. Colossians explains that baptized Gentile Christians are “circumcised.”
Col. 2:11-14 (NKJV) 11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
The baptism of our flesh is “the circumcision of Christ.” Note that it is our flesh that is baptized, so that this is indeed the “circumcision” in the flesh of the New Covenant. So while the original audience to which Ezekiel was written understood that prophecy to mean that no pagan (or any Jew whose religion was merely external) has no place in the Kingdom Temple, the New Testament applies such things in a new paradigm, and how it applies to Gentile believers. All Christians, male and female, are “circumcised” both in the flesh and in the heart at the same time because our conversion is both internal and external. This is why baptism is called being “born of water and of the Spirit/Breath” (John 3:3,5) because it is both external and internal simultaneously.
You should not think of “the church” and “Israel” as completely separate entities. That is leftover “dispensationalist” thinking, which is not what the Bible teaches. The covenants were made with Israel, including the New Covenant (Jer. 31:31-34). So redeemed “Israel” IS “the Church.” As Gentiles, we are joined with Israel and her covenants and promises, the Abrahamic Covenant, Davidic Covenant, and the New Covenant.
Brian,
The Scripture reveals the relationship between God and His Son using human procreative and familial terminology. Terms such as “father” and “son” and “begotten” and “only begotten Son” and “only begotten of the Father” and “according to kind” are all terms that only have meaning because of our human experience. Yet God chose to use these very terms concerning His relationship to His Son because of the parallels that He wished to convey for our understanding. That is how He wants us to think about Him and His Son. No doubt, such procreative and familial terms are finite and inadequate for conveying the full complexities of God, His Son, and the origin of the Son. But they are sufficient for conveying what God wants us to know and understand at this time.
One of the dangers of “philosophy” (what Paul called “pseudo-knowledge”) is that it is not satisfied with fully understanding what God has revealed. Pseudo-knowledge seeks to speculate beyond what God has revealed, and then claim that speculation as fact. We should be satisfied with understanding fully what God has revealed, rather than attempting to speculate in areas that God has not revealed.
Scripture is clear that God’s Agent in the OT, who is called the Messenger of the LORD, and often goes by God’s own name YHVH, was indeed learning by experience. He even changed His mind when He was about to destroy Israel, yet Moses interceded and reasoned with Him. It is clear from His encounter with Abraham in Gen. 22 that having tested Abraham’s faith, He learned something about Abraham that He did not know for certain previously. “For now I know that you fear God, because you did not withhold your only son from Me.”
Since God is unbegotten, but the Son was “begotten” at a point in time (“Today I have begotten You”), the Son has only existed in time not in eternity. While the term “begotten” indicates an origin at a specific point in time, something that does not apply to the Father, this does not mean that they are ontologically different. Adam and Seth had very different origins. Adam was created from dust as an adult, and Eve was created from Adam’s rib as an adult. Together they procreated Seth. Adam and Eve were created, having the ability to speak and understand language, and the ability to tend the Garden of Eden without having to go through the process of acquiring the skills. Seth had none of those things. He had to learn to crawl, walk, speak, and be taught skills. Was Seth ontologically the same as Adam, of the same “kind?” Of course. But they had completely different origins. Consequently, it is a mistake to claim that sameness of KIND requires sameness of knowledge. As far as we know, knowledge comes from experience and learning. Why would this not apply to the Son who was “begotten” like Seth was begotten?
If we take all that Scripture reveals about God and His Son, and if we interpret the terminology that God chose to use (the normal meanings of the terms) in order to reveal all that He wants us to know at this time, then the conclusions that I stated in what you quoted are the logical implications. IMO, we must take the familial – procreative language at face value, and not go beyond Scripture by speculating in things that God has not yet revealed. He will reveal more to us in the Kingdom. One day, if we remain faithful, we will “see God.”
Anders,
Here is Rev. 12:6 from the LGV.
6 And the woman escaped into the wilderness where she has a place there having been prepared from God (so that they may be nourishing her there) a thousand two hundred sixty days.
The verb translated “having been prepared” is in the perfect tense, which indicates that the place was prepared before the women flees to it. The bracketed words (so that they may be nourishing her there) is a parenthetical statement explaining why the place was prepared beforehand. So, without the explanation which interrupts the flow of the sentence, this verse reads: “And the woman escaped into the wilderness where she has a place there having been prepared from God a thousand two hundred sixty days. That is, the 1260 days is the duration of the time of preparation not the time she is being nourished.
Also, the antecedents for “they” (which is plural) must also be plural. Those who will nourish the woman are the two witnesses in chapter 11. In other words, prior to the woman fleeing, God has been preparing a place for the entire duration of the ministry of the two witnesses, so that when their ministry is concluded, and when the woman flees there at the time of the abomination of desolation, they may nourish her in that place where she flees which was prepared beforehand. When the two witnesses are killed by Antichrist when he rises to power, they will be raised 3.5 days later, and then be “taken up into the sky” and relocated to the place of refuge just as Elijah was relocated and Philip was relocated after baptizing the Ethiopian eunuch.
Anders,
The “times of the Gentiles” in Luke 21:24 refers to the extent of the second (Roman) exile. Jerusalem being “trodden underfoot” is a statement that harkens back to the first Babylonian Exile, where Jerusalem was said to be in “desolation” (compare Lev. 26:33-34; 2 Chron. 36:20-21).
Jesus’ prediction in Luke 21 concerns the second exile and uses the term “desolation” once again (v. 20). As with the first 70-year desolation of Jerusalem was marked by the utter destruction and absence of the Temple, so also the second Roman exile is marked by the same thing, no Temple. You will know when the Roman exile ends, when Temple worship begins again, especially the “daily sacrifice” described in Rev. 11:1-2
IMO, the cosmic signs which follow the “times of the gentiles” refers to the entire 70th week. Also, in the first half of the week, we see that the Temple is restored and has worshippers at the altar. Consequently, the “desolation” of Jerusalem described in Luke 21 ends when Temple worship begins again. This Temple worship will continue under the direction of the 2 witnesses until they are killed 1260 days later. After that, Antichrist will tread Jerusalem underfoot for 42 months (Rev. 13:5).
In the Olivet Discourse Jesus referred to the “day and hour,” not as the calendar date and time on the clock, but as equivalent to a “watch” which was an extended period not a point in time. The following post described this fully.
Yes, in the assembly we are in the “Kingdom” in the same way, in the presence of the King. While Jesus is not yet “King” of the nations, He is the “head” of the “body.” So the Assembly is supposed to be a microcosm of the Kingdom.
Eph. 1:22-23
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church,
23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.Sorry Steve, I made that more technical and complicated than it needed to be to answer your question. Suffice it to say that whenever you see a modifying noun in either the genitive case or dative case, a preposition needs to be supplied if one is not stated. The preposition that is supplied must be one that normally takes a genitive case object (if the noun is in the genitive case) or one that normally takes a dative case object (if the noun is in the dative case). This is true whether or not it has the article. (If it has the article, it will always agree in case, number, and gender with the noun it modifies).
Here is an example of a modifying noun in the genitive case. In Matt. 6:33 the expression τὴν βασιλείαν τοῦ θεοῦ (“the Kingdom of God”) is used. A bare literal interlinear would read, “the Kingdom the God.” However, the modifying noun (with the article) “the God” is in the genitive case. By far the most common preposition required by the nuance of the genitive case is the English “of” (implying ownership) or “from” (implying source). It can either be translated “the Kingdom OF God” or “the Kingdom FROM God.” But if you were to ignore the genitive case of the articular noun “τοῦ θεοῦ” you might be tempted to translate it “the God” instead of “of God.” This is where most printed interlinear Greek-English Bibles let you down because they do not reflect the parsing. The genitive case of the noun (and its article) requires either “of” or “from” here.
So the bottom line is that “poor IN spirit” is correct. The preposition is necessary to reflect the implications of the noun “spirit” (and its definite article) being placed in the dative case.
If you are merely looking at an interlinear Greek-English text you probably would not be able to know the case of the noun. If you cannot read Greek and thus cannot recognize the differences in spelling of the suffixes (which determine case, number, and gender), you would be greatly helped by using an interlinear that parses the words for you. Here is one that can be very helpful:
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm
Matthew 5 can be found here: https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat5.pdf
You will see that under the word translated “spirit” the parsing is as follows: n_ Dat Sg n. This means: n_ (noun) Dat (dative case) sg (singular number) n (neuter gender).
Steve,
The New Testament was written in Koine Greek, the dialect of the common people. As such, it is less refined and less precise than earlier Classical Greek. One of the ways this shows up is in the use of prepositions. While in Classical Greek prepositions are typically stated, in Koine Greek prepositions are often implied rather than actually stated. So Koine Greek is less wordy, but also less precise. However, in translating, the prepositions are necessary. The question is not whether a preposition should be there, but which presposition was being implied. In Matt. 5:3, οἱ πτωχοὶ Ï„á¿· πνεύματι is properly translated “the poor in spirit (or breath).”
Greek prepositions have an object (the word following the preposition) that is either in the accusative case, genitive case, or dative case. Some Greek prepositions always have an object in the genitive case. Others always have an object in the dative case. That is, certain prepositions are fixed in their sense to a particular case. However, some Greek prepositions can have an object in more than one of the cases. When this occurs, that preposition can have very different meanings dependent on the case of the object, whether accusative, genitive, or dative.
In this situation, τῷ πνεύματι is in the dative case. Both the article and the noun are inflected in the dative case. When this occurs, the article acts like a preposition.
One of the ways to conceptualize how the cases of nouns help govern a prepositional idea that is implied (when a preposition is not actually present) is to think of the genitive and dative cases in relation to motion.
The genitive case tends to be the case of source, and implies the idea either possession or motion away from the object. All of the prepositions that imply source and/or separation from their object take genitive case objects. The dative case is just the opposite. Prepositions that imply motion towards the object, being received by the object, and having been received and thus in the company of the object will have objects in the dative case.
When you have a situation where the preposition is not stated (that is a modifying noun is in the genitive or dative case, the case of that modifying noun (in this situation — Ï„á¿· πνεύματι) will govern the class of preposition that is implied. In other words, the translator needs to supply a preposition that always takes a dative case object in Greek. When learning Greek prepositions and the cases of their objects, the beginner will usually be told that a naked dative case noun such as Ï„á¿· πνεύματι will need a common Greek preposition that means “to,” “towards,” “in,” or “with” when translating to English. From among these, the translator chooses the one that makes the most sense in that statement.
“Poor IN spirit” is consistent with the dative case, and the most likely because the Greek preposition usually rendered “in” is THE most common Greek preposition that always takes a dative case object. Also, “poor with (regard to) spirit”, or “poor towards spirit” or “poor with spirit” are much less common prepositions yet all have essentially the same basic sense as “poor in spirit.” The sense of “in” with the dative is probably the most common nuance of the dative case, so the omission of the preposition makes this by far the most likely candidate. That is, the speaker and hearer or reader of Koine Greek would naturally assume the most common implication of the dative, and would be the reason why the speaker or writer wouldn’t bother to include the preposition.
Regarding Luke 6:20, Jesus was not saying that all of the poor are blessed and heirs of the Kingdom. He was referring to His own disciples as “poor” in the context. So they were “poor” followers of Jesus.
Jonathan,
Welcome to the forum.
#1. The point of the statement, “eating and drinking” etc. was not to show a world that is not in turmoil, but the unexpectedness of Jesus coming for the majority of mankind which does not believe the prophecies. They live as though the end is not upon them. Paul made it clear in 1 Thess. 5 that destruction will overtake the wicked “like a thief in the night” but that alert Christians will not be surprised by Jesus’ return.
#2. Notice in verse 26 Jesus referred to “the days (plural) of the Son of Man.” Notice also that the examples of Noah and of Lot was not of an instantaneous deliverance. The deliverance from God’s wrath took some time. Compare Luke 17:31 with Matthew 24:15-22 where the same warning clearly refers to the mind-point of the tribulation, and concerns Christians fleeing from Judea at the time of the abomination of desolation. Revelation 12 also portrays this as the “woman” fleeing into the wilderness to a place of God’s provision while the final plagues of wrath are poured out. Isaiah described this also in the following words: “Come, my people, enter into your rooms, And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while, Until indignation runs its course. For behold, the LORD is about to come out from His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; And the earth will reveal her bloodshed, And will no longer cover her slain.” (Isa. 26:20-21 NASB).
IMO, Luke 17:26-37 is about believers fleeing to safety with supernatural assistance. It is clear that they have the option to go back from the field, or collect their belongings, since they are commanded not to do this. It is also compared to “Lot’s wife,” who while fleeing on foot to safety, looked back. This is a warning. It certainly does not apply to a “rapture.”
The word “taken” does not mean snatched away. It means to be received near into one’s presence, to be included within a private group (cf. Matt. 17:1). This refers to the collective group whom God will preserve during that time of great tribulation.
#3. Luke 17:20-21 (NASB) 20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
The first thing you should notice is that in Jesus’ answer He indicated that the Kingdom was already present, “in your midst“ (not “within you” as in the KJV/NKJV). That it was not coming “with observation” means that it was not visible or apparent at that time while it was already present among them. In what way was the Kingdom present? It was in the person of Christ Himself, the King.
John the Baptist had previously sent messengers to inquire of Jesus if He was the Messiah. Jesus’ rather cryptic answer helps to understand His statement in Luke 17 to the scribes and Pharisees. Remember, Jesus always spoke to His antagonists in riddles, but plainly to His disciples (See: Mark 4:11-12,33-34).
Luke 7:20-22 (NASB) 20 And when the men had come to Him, they said, “John the Baptist has sent us to You, saying, ‘Are You the Expected One, or do we look for someone else?'” 21 At that very time He cured many people of diseases and afflictions and evil spirits; and He granted sight to many who were blind. 22 And He answered and said to them, “Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have the gospel preached to them.
The reason Jesus pointed to His miracles to implicitly answer John’s question is because of the prophecy of Isaiah 35:5-6 which is clearly speaking of the Kingdom in the context. “5 Then the eyes of the blind will be opened, And the ears of the deaf will be unstopped. 6 Then the lame will leap like a deer, And the tongue of the dumb will shout for joy.” The same thing occurs in Isaiah 61:1-3. ” The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me, Because the LORD has anointed me To bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to captives, And freedom to prisoners; 2 To proclaim the favorable year of the LORD, And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn, 3 To grant those who mourn in Zion, Giving them a garland instead of ashes, The oil of gladness instead of mourning, The mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting. So they will be called oaks of righteousness, The planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified.” Jesus essentially told them that the proof was right in front of them. The exact miracles which will be universal in the Kingdom were being demonstrated on a small scale. Even the Gospel being preached to them, which Jesus was doing, was just a small demonstration to the state in the Kingdom described in Isaiah 2:2-3 & Isaiah 11:9.
Consider also the message that Jesus told His disciples to proclaim when He sent them out two by two ahead of Him to announce the Gospel within the cities of Judah.
Luke 10:7-11 (NASB) 8 “And whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat what is set before you; 9 and heal those in it who are sick, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ 10 “But whatever city you enter and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11 ‘Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet, we wipe off in protest against you; yet be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’
The Kingdom of God is near when the King is near. It is present “among you” when Jesus stood in their midst. This in no sense means that the Kingdom, as greatly elaborated upon in the prophets, is not literally coming. It is indeed coming, and when it comes at that time it will be with “observation” including a host of celestial signs.
Luke 21:25-31 (NASB) 25 “And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and upon the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 “And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 “But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” 29 And He told them a parable: “Behold the fig tree and all the trees; 30 as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 “Even so you, too, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near.”
So the point is this: When Jesus’ antagonists demanded that He tell them when the Kingdom would come, He deflected. He knew they were asking about the physical Kingdom. But instead of answering them directly, He indicated that all of the Kingdom that they would see was right in front of them, in their midst. Yet, in vs. 22-25 Jesus turned to His disciples and clearly acknowledged that the Kingdom would indeed come with observation “like lightening” later, after His rejection by Israel.
