[Peter C]

Karl,

All the other biblical references to dead people in the grave are of just that, dead people in the grave. They are literally, physically dead and metaphorically sleeping, in the grave.

Jonah on the other hand is physically alive, in deep despair and cries out using metaphorical language referencing the grave.

These are two distinctly different conditions. You’re confusing terms.

Jesus equates physical death as metaphorically sleeping (John 11:11-14).

Jonah wasn’t dead, after his ordeal he was vomited onto the land to complete his mission.

Beyond this, I obviously can’t be of any help. Hopefully, for your sake, and peace of mind, someone else can offer a clearer solution?

Apologies for the “arbitrary, ad hoc” replies, I’ll keep that in mind going forward.

[Peter C]

I am not sure how anyone could believe Jonah is dead from inside of a whale or Sheol, in light of verses like these.

Psalm 6:5 Among the dead no one proclaims your name.
Who praises you from the grave?

Psalm 115:17 It is not the dead who praise the LORD,
those who go down to the place of silence

Ps. 30:9; 88:10-12; Ecc 9:10; Isa 38:18

[Peter C]

My phone sent a duplicate post, so I have just edited, changed the duplicate reply.

Also Karl, maybe I am not following you very well and what you’re asking?
Do you believe that people go to a place after death as departed ghosts?

I think that “The belly of Sheol” conveys a stronger sense of despair compared to “from the edge of Sheol”.
As I said before it seems to be an idiomatic expression, perhaps we’ll known at that time?

[Peter C]

Karl,

The fact that Sheol supposedly has a “Belly”, one would assume it is an idiomatic expression and therefore metaphorical language and not literal. Unless, one believes, “Sheol”, or “the grave”, literally has a belly?

[Peter C]

Hi Karl,
I hope you don’t mind, I am going to take a crack at answering. It helps me learn, so any errors in my answer can hopefully be corrected.

Jonah’s journey begins (Jon. 1:17, 2:1) and ends (Jon. 2:10) in the whale.

Jonah was clearly in great distress and fear for his life.

From Jonah’s point of view, he had no idea how long he would spend inside the whale or if he would even survive. He probably thought the belly of the fish was his final resting place.

With that in mind, Jonah began to pray to the LORD.

This is the important point: assuming the translation *“ebbing away” (NIV) is correct?

Jonah’s use of the word “Sheol” or grave is metaphorical, because in verse 7 Jonah’s “life is ebbing away”, so Jonah was clearly still alive at this point, perhaps physically close to death or just in such distress he felt as though death was imminent.

For those who believe (as I once did) that Sheol (the grave), a literal place for the departed ghosts, is allegedly in a subterranean cavern deep in the Earth. How could it also literally be in a whale’s belly, as Jonah called it?

I think that also shows the use of the word Sheol is metaphorical.

* The verb [ebbing away] Ekleipō (ἐκλείπω) is a Greek verb meaning “to fail,” “to cease,” “to leave out,” or “to come to an end”. Derived from ek (“out”) and leipō (“leave”), it implies abandonment, omission, or a cessation of existence, often used for disappearing light, passing away, or dying. It is the root of the English word “eclipse.”

Sent from my iPhone

[Peter C]

Hi Tim,

I just have some thoughts around what you said back in February on the blog “Seven Fat Cows Redux?” And also more recently.

Tim>>“I was looking for a possible seven-year period of abnormal prosperity to begin somewhere around 2022 as a confirmation of this theory and perhaps as a confirmation that the tentative connection to the Gregorian calendar in my book was correct. But that did not occur then.”

Given the enormous increase in Property, Equities Markets, Gold, Commodities etc since 2022, I am interested in understanding what you think “abnormal prosperity” is? And for whom?

I also think you have dismissed the land cycle hastily and you’re assuming God has not been, or is not presently in control of that particular cycle. (I don’t know either way, no one does). However, at the present time it aligns with one of your possible dates of the arrival of the two prophets, which is 2029.

The increase of wealth since 2022. (Sadly, not for everyone).

Gold was under $700 an ounce in the GFC (2008).

Since September 2022 Gold has risen from around $1600 an ounce to currently around $3860 an ounce, more than double the 2022 low. It is forecast to reach around US$5000 an ounce, before its eventual peak and collapse. (According to Phil Anderson).

It took Gold 14 years to double from 2008 to 2022 and so far less than 3 years to double in 2025 from the 2022 low.

S&P 500 low on October 1 2022 was about 3490 and currently around 6730. Almost double.

Residential property, which accounts for 76% of all global real estate value, stood at US$287.6 trillion in 2022, it is projected to be around US$534 trillion at the end of 2025.

A repeat in progress? 100 years ago the land cycle peaked in 1926 followed by the stock market in 1929. The current cycle is still in line with that possibility.

There are also several major war cycles also due around 2029.

The current economic evidence in my opinion supports that increased prosperity has been occurring since 2022 and we will likely be in a recession during the time of the two prophets in 2029.

Did Egypt’s prosperity (by God’s hand) increase over night? No, it was a steady increase over the 7 years. Egypt had Joseph a man of God in a position of power at that time, who could that be for the USA? Assuming that is, the USA is going to be used in a similar capacity or if at all. And did Egypt have a USD$37 trillion deficit? I’m joking.

Tim, I don’t know what you were expecting to happen? But so far overall wealth has increased in an unprecedented way since 2022, not to mention the US deficit and homelessness. It’s a a real mix of contradictions so far. But nonetheless the economic cycle is thus far on track, and in my opinion should be something for everyone just to be aware of as we move forward, until it is disproved or confirmed with our Biblical framework as the guide.

[Peter C]

Thanks for the input Tim,

I agree with what you have said, the cycles will mean nothing when God brings about His purposes. I am very aware of that, it would be mental to assume otherwise.

My point is, given your Biblical chronology as outlined in your book, The Time of The End, and assuming it is correct and the two prophets do arrive in 2029 and not 2032, then the current economic cycle is exactly in line with that theory (for the world).

Anything can happen, so I understand we need to see what unfolds as we go forward. I like that you’re flexible in your thinking, even though you are confident in your chronology.

My thinking was, with the expected arrival of the two witnesses in 2029, it fits perfectly with the current land cycle.

I expected this to be the last economic cycle to complete before everything went crazy as we move into the time of the two prophets.

If the current economic cycle does extend for another few years, (beyond 2026) for the USA, then there would be no doubt God has intervened, as this has never happened in the history of the USA. That in itself would be a type of confirmation of God’s intervention.

I am very interested to see how things will play out and can’t wait to see the arrival of the two prophets. I find that very exciting, the Bible coming alive in this way.

[Peter C]

Hi Anders,

This will be a bit of a different perspective perhaps than you were hoping for. I hope no one minds. I also hope the post goes through as well as I have sent several comments to other posts on the blog and they didn’t make it.

Firstly, I do not offer this information as a form of investment advice or encouragement to invest. My aim is strictly in relation to the 7 years of plenty, which may well be now and is likely ending soon. Based on previous history it is likely to start in 2026, possibly 2027. We will see.

The 18.6 Year Property [Land] Cycle.

There exists a cycle in the economy of the USA (and other western societies) that has been occurring since 1776. The United States leads this cycle. It also dates back to the 1600’s in the UK.

The cycle is called the 18.6 year property cycle. (The shortest on record is 17 years, with the longest being 21 years).

Phil Anderson from Australia, intensively studied this cycle back in the 90’s in various libraries in the USA for many years. Others have also written about this. Including Dr Homer Hoyt a US economist and real estate speculator.

He identified the 18-year real estate cycle in his dissertation 100 Years of Land Values in Chicago (1833–1933) (published December 1933).
Others include Fred Harrison from the UK, Mason Gaffney USA and Akhil Patel of the UK.

The Cycle Basics

Each 18.6-year cycle consists of an average 14 years up and then four years down.

Each 14 years up can further be broken into two parts. Each one lasted around seven years, split by a mid- cycle slowdown or recession. The economy grows steadily during these phases.

The final two years of the 14 years up we call the “Winner’s Curse” period. During this time the animal spirits are truly unleashed, and speculation and excess are apparent everywhere. This is not the time to be all in and highly leveraged.

Finally, comes the four years of crisis, crash and recovery.

Note also that this cycle includes the stock market etc. Land leads the way. The stock market may peak a year or 2 later than the land cycle.

On a side note. There is also the Kondratiev cycle [54-60 years, 25-30 up, 25-30 down] involving commodities like Gold etc. This is also ending soon.

The following (image) link gives a decent overview of the previous cycles since the 1950’s. It should make it easier to understand.
https://strawman.com/member/uploads/objects/37/d1ddd9da09baa5c7507444d7edc5192c1450dc.jpeg

During the last phase of the cycle lavish spending occurs, [credit becomes more abundant during the final half of the cycle] and typically worlds tallest buildings are announced, or worlds longest something, etc.

Tallest towers opening in the world at the time of recession after property cycle peak and bust.

The Empire State Building opened in 1931 [It was nicknamed the Empty State Building, it had no tenants].

World Trade Center [Twin towers] opened in 1973 [Briefly the tallest]

Sears Tower [Willis Tower] opened 1973. (Tallest building in the world at that time).

Burj Khalifa opened in January 4 2010. The world’s tallest building and during the GFC recession.

Jeddah Tower in Saudi Arabia, if completed will be the world’s tallest tower, it’s expected open is in 2028 during the next possible recession.

Personally, after listening to Phil Anderson and his research on the economic cycles, it seems very clear the boom is coming to an end. I have seen some of his videos that date back to around 2011 and things have played out exactly as he expected since.

“There’s a law in economics as real as gravity,” Anderson says, “and it’s that all of society’s gains eventually gravitate toward the price of land.”

The information above is less than a drop in the ocean. One

[Peter C]

Hi Kim,

My understanding as learned from Tim is this: The counting begins at Jesus ascension (AD30) not at the destruction of the Temple [if AD70].

If Jesus ascension is AD30, then 2 days (2 Millennia) after that time would be 2030 on our calendar. However, the Jewish New Year (Rosh Hashanah) begins a few months before our Gregorian calendar around September 2029.

“After” 2 days (2 Millennia, counting from Jesus ascension) he will revive us;

“on the ‘Third Day’ (The beginning of the 3rd Millennia counting from Jesus ascension, and the 7th Millennia since creation) he will restore us’.

Potentially September 2029 begins Daniel’s 70th week, the last week (7 years) of the tribulation before Jesus returns in 2036 on Yom Kippur.

[Author]

Posts